Lower Spm = ???

[[old] Manda]

Learning to lower your stroke rate is not easy (as <b>jamesg</b> says, most of rowing is counterintuitive!) but knowing how control your rate will improve your rowing.<br /><br />Your main problem at present is that you're rushing your slide i.e. you're letting the seat control the speed at which you come back up the slide, rather than using your legs to controll your recovery speed.<br /><br />Counting evenly, you should be achiving a count of "1Mississipi" for the drive, and at least "1Mississipi, 2Mississipi" during recovery, with up to "3Mississipi" being preferable. <br /><br />The drive is fairly straightforward (i.e. hard &fast). What YOU need to be really really really concentrating on is keeping the recovery slooooooow by using your legs to actively control the speed at which you come back up the slide. You should almost feel at the end of the drive as if you're having to hold your legs down at bit longer than usual, and then as you come back up that you're resisting against the natural desire to just rush back up the slide. Remember - it's a long slow "1Mississipi, 2Mississipi" (maybe 3Mississipi") back up to the start.<br /><br />For a few sessions do only, say, 4 sets of 500m, with a rest in between. For each 500m, don't worry too much about your split. Start on 25SPM, with a comfortable pressure. Don't take your eye off the monitor. If your RPM creeps up, force yourself to slow down on the recovery again until your RPM comes back to 25. If it goes up again, force it back down again. Etc, adnausem. It can feel hard and it does feel weird at first. Persevere.<br /><br />Ignore mileage for now. Instead, spend a few days (weeks, if necessary), working on your technique. Once you've done it often enough it starts to fall into place.<br /><br />

[[old] 15kaday]

Rowing above a 28 is the easy way out of training hard unless youre doing timed trials. What you are trying to achieve is easy. If you do a 10k everyday start out really slow, around an 18 and row there for 1k or so. Dont worry about pressure just yet. You really just have to become accustomed to rowing at low rates. Try keep it under a 24. Just ease up the slide and make it controlled. When you start to press down harder, just make the recovery longer. Just stay relaxed. After months of low rates with medium to hard pressure whenever you time yourself and you go at 28 spm or higher, you'll be more effective. Its all about setting a rythm.<br /><br /><br />As for the rowing strapless, its good for technique and rowing at lower rates just dont do it continuosly for more than a few weeks at a time, since it can cause stress fractures in your ribs.

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-15kaday+Jun 1 2005, 06:54 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(15kaday @ Jun 1 2005, 06:54 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As for the rowing strapless, its good for technique and rowing at lower rates just dont do it continuosly for more than a few weeks at a time, since it can cause stress fractures in your ribs. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />What? That's a new one....

[[old] Stretch]

Maybe at 22 SPI...

[[old] GeorgeD]

<!--QuoteBegin-15kaday+Jun 2 2005, 03:54 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(15kaday @ Jun 2 2005, 03:54 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As for the rowing strapless, its good for technique and rowing at lower rates just dont do it continuosly for more than a few weeks at a time, since it can cause stress fractures in your ribs. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Please please please explain ?

[[old] 15kaday]

It may only happen on the water but elite rowers who row for weeks or even months on the water with their feet out, can cause stress fractures in the ribs due to the abdomen having to support more weight. I don't know if it will happen on an erg but just in case.

[[old] neilb]

<!--QuoteBegin-15kaday+Jun 2 2005, 10:09 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(15kaday @ Jun 2 2005, 10:09 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->with their feet out, can cause stress fractures in the ribs due to the abdomen having to support more weight. [right] <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />George,<br /><br />Shouldn't happen to a lightweight like you. (In any event as you are "upside down" compared to Northern hemisphere there is no gravity to worry about?) <br /><br />Neil

[[old] neilb]

<!--QuoteBegin-15kaday+Jun 2 2005, 10:09 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(15kaday @ Jun 2 2005, 10:09 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It may only happen on the water but elite rowers who row for weeks or even months on the water with their feet out, can cause stress fractures in the ribs due to the abdomen having to support more weight. I don't know if it will happen on an erg but just in case. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I would be more concerned about the more immediate effect of wet feet or even frostbite from having them out of the boat. (Still, could help with balance/steering I suppose)<br /><br />Neil

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-15kaday+Jun 2 2005, 07:09 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(15kaday @ Jun 2 2005, 07:09 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It may only happen on the water but elite rowers who row for weeks or even months on the water with their feet out, can cause stress fractures in the ribs due to the abdomen having to support more weight. I don't know if it will happen on an erg but just in case. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Do you have some data to back up this assertion? I've truly never heard of such a thing. Much less that any rower does feet out drills for weeks or months at a time. Plainly, what you are saying makes no sense, but that seems to happen from time to time in any forum. <br /><br />PS - The tone and logic are still sounding very familiar. I suppose that if this question goes unanswered it will be even more obvious.

[[old] Peter S]

everyone here is talking about rates and while we are on the subject, in my own personal experience, I do all my peices at relativly low rates, I did a 10k today mostly at a 22-24and still PRed by 45 seconds and I even 2k at a 28 which i know i need to get higher but ive found if you really kick the drive and lengthen out a lot you can get the same speeds at the slower rates as well as the higher rates

[[old] Mel Harbour]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Jun 2 2005, 11:07 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Jun 2 2005, 11:07 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-15kaday+Jun 2 2005, 07:09 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(15kaday @ Jun 2 2005, 07:09 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It may only happen on the water but elite rowers who row for weeks or even months on the water with their feet out, can cause stress fractures in the ribs due to the abdomen having to support more weight. I don't know if it will happen on an erg but just in case. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Do you have some data to back up this assertion? I've truly never heard of such a thing. Much less that any rower does feet out drills for weeks or months at a time. Plainly, what you are saying makes no sense, but that seems to happen from time to time in any forum. <br /><br />PS - The tone and logic are still sounding very familiar. I suppose that if this question goes unanswered it will be even more obvious. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Yeah, can't say I've seen any evidence in a study for this (and you know I do tend to try to keep up with these things). I have seen a study which analysed rib stress fractures in oarsmen, but the correlations they found weren't to do with rowing feet out. They actually found that (for example) scullers tend to stress fracture the ribs on the side to which they turn when they look over their shoulders (most people are quite habitual and will tend to look one side much more than the other).<br /><br />Particularly on the water, there's no reason I can think of why rowing feet out would increase the loading on the ribs.<br /><br />One thing I would caution people is that feet out is not an exercise which is designed to stop people rushing the recovery. It is designed to work at the timing of the release (finish), timing it so that there is positive pressure on the footplate right until the moment of release (the negative pressure comes afterwards).<br /><br />Mel

[[old] katbois]

After reading this thread, I decided to try strapless, lower my SPM to 22-24 and adjust the foot thingy so my toes were just below the foot plate! <br /><br />Guess what! It works! <br /><br />I did a 30 minute row this morning with a 2:06:9 pace and kept the SPM in the aforementioned zone and did 7089m. It does require more concentration and attention to the PM3. I kept my HR in the 80% zone and found it most enjoyable.<br /><br />I followed up with a spin class where my HR barely breaks 70% max.<br /><br />I started erging at the gym in March, so you'll have to forgive my virgin ways! I am learning a lot from this site and am considering purchasing a Model D and RowPro (once my ship comes in).<br /><br />Thanks, all!<br /><br />Mark

[[old] gillie]

What a great thread. Very useful. <br /><br />I recently dusted off my old (10-yr-old) model to work a decade of neglect off my body. Although I coxed in University, I had never rowed. (The C2 was acquired with my husband (a former rower) ages ago, and I never really perfected my technique at that time.) 2 kids and lots of pasta later, it seemed as good a time as any to get rowing.<br /><br />Anyway, the strapless rowing, and an attempt to put more power into my drive, seems to be paying dividends for me! <br /><br />Many thanks for an excellent topic!

[[old] frank]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+May 6 2005, 11:06 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ May 6 2005, 11:06 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Shepherd+May 6 2005, 04:19 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Shepherd @ May 6 2005, 04:19 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->After reading a lot of this forum, I've pretty much concluded that 30+ spm is not an optimum way to be using the rower. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />A SR=30 is fine, as long as you are at a 1:40 pace... <br /><br />Serioulsy though, what you need to work on is applying power to spin the flywheel faster, rather than rushing up the recovery faster to let the flywheel slow less. The later yields diminishing returns.<br /><br />It's not really your fault this happens, the PM rewards that type of behavior by giving you a faster pace (reward) for the rushed recovery (behavior). It would also give a reward for driving harder, but hey, driving hard is toughre than recovering faster (to a point) and we will take the easy way out, naturally (until you become a rower and learn to take the hard path in training so that racing is easy).<br /><br />Train Hard, Race Easy. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /> I am new to this forum and infact new to concept rowing. I have been rowing three times a week at the for the last 2 months. I am male 51 and suffer from diabetes. Thanks to concept rowing I am really enjoying ma tme at the gym. Right now I row 7k in 35 minn with power averaging between 2.10 and 2.25. Could you please give me pointers as to wheather I am doing the right thing.<br /><br />Thank you<br />Frank <br />Malta

[[old] Hal Morgan]

<!--QuoteBegin-frank+Jul 2 2005, 09:13 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(frank @ Jul 2 2005, 09:13 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+May 6 2005, 11:06 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ May 6 2005, 11:06 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Shepherd+May 6 2005, 04:19 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Shepherd @ May 6 2005, 04:19 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->After reading a lot of this forum, I've pretty much concluded that 30+ spm is not an optimum way to be using the rower. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />A SR=30 is fine, as long as you are at a 1:40 pace... <br /><br />Serioulsy though, what you need to work on is applying power to spin the flywheel faster, rather than rushing up the recovery faster to let the flywheel slow less. The later yields diminishing returns.<br /><br />It's not really your fault this happens, the PM rewards that type of behavior by giving you a faster pace (reward) for the rushed recovery (behavior). It would also give a reward for driving harder, but hey, driving hard is toughre than recovering faster (to a point) and we will take the easy way out, naturally (until you become a rower and learn to take the hard path in training so that racing is easy).<br /><br />Train Hard, Race Easy. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />I am new to this forum and infact new to concept rowing. I have been rowing three times a week at the for the last 2 months. I am male 51 and suffer from diabetes. Thanks to concept rowing I am really enjoying ma tme at the gym. Right now I row 7k in 35 minn with power averaging between 2.10 and 2.25. Could you please give me pointers as to wheather I am doing the right thing.<br /><br />Thank you<br />Frank <br />Malta <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Bravo! way to go! Keep Rowing! <br />The more blood you rush through your veins the cleaner your body is. The more air the lungs move the stronger your lungs are. The more you use the muscles the straighter you stand the easier you walk. The body loves to move. Row often row as best you can and brag about it. It is good for you. best of luck.<br /><br />Here is an interseting link. I study this method and my strenght and style improved, I would like the thank Mr. Dwanye K. Adams from Arizona for recommending it in the forum.