Ranger - News To Shock

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Dec 6 2005, 11:23 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 6 2005, 11:23 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Dec 6 2005, 08:40 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Dec 6 2005, 08:40 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As for boats, I'm exactly opposite, the only boats worth rowing and competing in are the team boats, as it's fun to share the experience and success with others.[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />Team boats are good for those who are not capable of rowing in singles.<br /><br />Eights are good for those not qualified to get selected for rowing in fours.<br /><br />The social aspects can be nice (when not hypocritical), but that is not to be confused with fitness or athleticism. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Ah, the little rabid dog is yapping away, once again. BAD BOY! SIT!<br />What happened, didn't Ranger pet you enough?<br /><br />I guess that is all you can do when you have no idea what you are talking about.

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Dec 6 2005, 02:25 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 6 2005, 02:25 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 6 2005, 08:37 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 6 2005, 08:37 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What I need to do requires more investment than 5 hours of training a day?[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />So you are doing what then, 75 kilometers every day?<br /><br />Rich,<br /><br />I believe that like I believe you can do a half marathon at 1:45 pace at 22 spm. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I do more cross-training than erging. In my cross-training, I do an hour of sit ups, an hour of skipping, and 1-2 hours of stepping. This summer I rowed both on and off the water and did both running and biking (rather than skipping and stepping). <br /><br />I have been doing these long bouts of training pretty consistently for several years now. <br /><br />Today, after my long warm ups and erging, I did 80min on the stepper at 300 watts. I will now be adding 10 minutes a day to the length of this stepping, working toward 150 minutes by next week. My standard stepping routine during racing season has been two hours. This year I want to stretch this to 2.5 hours, marathon length, just to see what effect it might have.<br /><br />Last year I stepped comfortably at 275 watts, so there is improvement here as well. Today my HR at the end of the 80min was 155 bpm.<br /><br />ranger<br />

[[old] george nz]

Ranger with <u>only about 6 weeks to your first race</u> I would have thought you would have been gradually reducing the distance work and upping the intensity - when is the speed work coming in?<br /><br />tks George

[[old] ranger]

300 watts is 1:45 pace on the erg.<br /><br />Try it for a couple of hours. See what you think!<br /><br />Although the _kind_ of effort is very different, in the _extent_ of the effort involved, the two hours I like to spend on the stepper feels a lot like a 2K. If I use the calorie counter on the stepper, the calories burned are in and around 2000 (about 2300) and therefore count off like meters in a 2K. <br /><br />The experience of doing 1000 sit ups can be similar, as can a hard hour of skipping. <br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin-george nz+Dec 6 2005, 02:53 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(george nz @ Dec 6 2005, 02:53 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ranger with <u>only about 6 weeks to your first race</u> I would have thought you would have been gradually reducing the distance work and upping the intensity - when is the speed work coming in?<br /><br />tks George <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I don't reduce the extent of my training as I approach a race. In my three WR rows, I just trained right through, doing a steady 4-5 hours a day. <br /><br />I even do this on race day. I warm up for about three hours before I race (1000 sit ups, an hour of skipping, 15K of erging).<br /><br />ranger<br />

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin-george nz+Dec 6 2005, 02:53 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(george nz @ Dec 6 2005, 02:53 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ranger with <u>only about 6 weeks to your first race</u> I would have thought you would have been gradually reducing the distance work and upping the intensity - when is the speed work coming in?<br /><br />tks George <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />It is what, a good 12 weeks, until the CRASH-Bs? I am building toward that goal.<br /><br />I am still getting great training effects from my low rate rowing (1:52 @ 18), so I am continuing with it at the moment and will probably continue to continue with this sort of rowing in some proportion, right through to the CRASH-Bs. <br /><br />Yes, I will gradually start to do faster rowing, too. This month (December), this will mainly be in the form of long bouts of fartleks--Zatopek 250s, 500s, 1Ks.<br /><br />The long bouts of cross-training I am doing at the moment are preparing me for this long, faster interval work on the erg. <br /><br />BTW, after erging 20K or so, try stepping at 300 watts for 2 hours and report back to me about the "intensity" of the experience.<br /><br /> <br /><br />George, IMHO, the key to good training, especially for rowing, is to get so that you can do a lot of good quality work at a low heart rate, and with good recoveries between intervals, not to stress yourself out (and therefore get tired and stale, or even sick or injured) with short bouts sprinting. Sure, I'll do some anaerobic work eventually, but not very much.<br /><br />If things go well, this month, I will be trying to work through the Zatopek 500s (i.e., 40 x 500m, 500m paddle inbetween) at about 1:38-1:40 @ 28-30 spm. I will try the Zatopek 250s (80 x 250m, 250 paddle inbetween) at 1:36 @ 32 spm.<br /><br />That should be some good quick work. <br /><br />WR pace for the 55-59lwts is now Dennis', what, 6:40.8?<br /><br />ranger

[[old] george nz]

So you will just train thru the 4 races you have planned before Boston, - ok all clear now thanks.<br /><br />I guess you will just be looking to see times drop over the 4 with the culmination at Boston. So what is your goal time at the first, I guess there like here you need to put something down on entry form??<br /><br />tks George<br /><br />ps I am knowledgeable enough to know that one should not confuse intensity (above AT) with endurance sessions. Rowing 20k at 18spm at 1:52 with breaks (you have called this UT2 or maybe UT1 for yourself) does not create the same sort of physiological stress and 4 x 1000m at race pace.<br /><br />cheers

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 6 2005, 12:21 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 6 2005, 12:21 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If things go well, this month, I will be trying to work through the Zatopek 500s (i.e., 40 x 500m, 500m paddle inbetween) at about 1:38-1:40 @ 28-30 spm. I will try the Zatopek 250s (80 x 250m, 250 paddle inbetween) at 1:36 @ 32 spm.<br /><br />That should be some good quick work. <br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Sheesh, not this again?!?!!? At least you aren't saying the 80 x 250m x 1 min @ 2k pace. I suppose 250m can take a long time "paddling"... , but my prediciton on this is that you will not actually do it, thus making it very silly to propose. The 40 x 500m x 2:30 (or whatever) @ 1:38-1:40 are no more likely.<br /><br />Good luck anyway.

[[old] george nz]

I think it is common consensus that to be able to race over any given distance at any given pace then it is sensible to prepare the 'body' to do that. In our case that would be spending time training at race rate and pace for a period leading up to the event.<br /><br />Preparation is the key (as Ranger rightly says) however preparation for rowing 2k at 1:36 and 34spm is not rowing 1:52 at 18. The demands placed on the body to co-ordinate movement at that pace require 'practice' as the 'training' ratio's and rates have become habituated.<br /><br />After 2 years of low rate training, Vo2 max will have been attained in the experienced athlete, however it is most likely that AT will be a fairly low % of this and requires time to 'push' up, also while the heart and lungs may be working well the muscles need to be trained to utilize them.<br /><br />It should be noted here as well that just doing long distance low rate stuff every day for long periods (no matter how much sweat) will not necessarily elicit improvement. Improvement comes from adaptation and if the 'body' is being shown the same stuff day after day week after week it soon realises that there is no need to adapt.<br /><br />IMHO<br /><br />George

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin-george nz+Dec 6 2005, 03:31 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(george nz @ Dec 6 2005, 03:31 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So you will just train thru the 4 races you have planned before Boston, - ok all clear now thanks.<br /><br />I guess you will just be looking to see times drop over the 4 with the culmination at Boston.  So what is your goal time at the first, I guess there like here you need to put something down on entry form??<br /><br />tks George<br /><br />ps I am knowledgeable enough to know that one should not confuse intensity (above AT) with endurance sessions.  Rowing 20k at 18spm at 1:52 with breaks (you have called this UT2 or maybe UT1 for yourself) does not create the same sort of physiological stress and 4 x 1000m at race pace.<br /><br />cheers <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I have never done 4 x 1K at race pace. In fact, I have never done 4 x 1K at all.<br /><br />But I have three world record rows and have rowed 6:28 at a smidge before 53 years old rowing as a lightweight.<br /><br />It appears that there are several ways to skin a cat.<br /><br />I am just training in ways that I can feel are productive for me, not trying to do something that might work for someone else but does me no good or gets me in trouble (i.e., staleness, sickness, injury).<br /><br />To each his own, I guess.<br /><br />I have been pretty successful, no?<br /><br />ranger<br />

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Dec 6 2005, 03:36 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Dec 6 2005, 03:36 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 6 2005, 12:21 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 6 2005, 12:21 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If things go well, this month, I will be trying to work through the Zatopek 500s (i.e., 40 x 500m, 500m paddle inbetween) at about 1:38-1:40 @ 28-30 spm. I will try the Zatopek 250s (80 x 250m, 250 paddle inbetween) at 1:36 @ 32 spm.<br /><br />That should be some good quick work. <br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Sheesh, not this again?!?!!? At least you aren't saying the 80 x 250m x 1 min @ 2k pace. I suppose 250m can take a long time "paddling"... , but my prediciton on this is that you will not actually do it, thus making it very silly to propose. The 40 x 500m x 2:30 (or whatever) @ 1:38-1:40 are no more likely.<br /><br />Good luck anyway. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I have already done both of these workouts, and the 1Ks, too (i.e., 20 x 1K at 1:42-1:44), although that was a couple of years ago. I did the 500s at 1:39 and the 250s at 1:36. <br /><br />No, I didn't take 1 minute rest for the 250s. It took 1:30 (or thereabouts) as I remember. I also batched the 250s into 4 x 20, with a somewhat longer break between the batches.<br /><br />I didn't batch the 500s. I did them straight through and I just did a paddle inbetween, no set set time for recovery. <br /><br />Hey, what I have done, I have done. What I can do, I can do. If it turns out I can't do them now, so it goes. No matter.<br /><br />The point of these workouts is just to do a lot of work in and around race pace, staying aerobic all the while, so that you can keep going.<br /><br />Each interval workout is a marathon/42K or so of rowing.<br /><br />ranger<br />

[[old] george nz]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 7 2005, 09:55 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 7 2005, 09:55 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But I have three world record rows and have rowed 6:28 at a smidge before 53 years old rowing as a lightweight.<br />ranger<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Gee I never knew <br /><br />I think that should read HAD as in past tense<br /><br />cheers<br /><br />ps I note that on the UK forum you talked about the number of WR rows you have had in the last 4 years ? I thought the last of these was over 2 years ago.... what is the statute of limitations on such statements. At the moment you have WR in consecutive posts only (still current champion) the rest is well past their 'use by date' <br /><br /><br />

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin-george nz+Dec 6 2005, 03:48 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(george nz @ Dec 6 2005, 03:48 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think it is common consensus that to be able to race over any given distance at any given pace then it is sensible to prepare the 'body' to do that.  In our case that would be spending time training at race rate and pace for a period leading up to the event.<br /><br />Preparation is the key (as Ranger rightly says) however preparation for rowing 2k at 1:36 and 34spm is not rowing 1:52 at 18.  The demands placed on the body to co-ordinate movement at that pace require 'practice' as the 'training' ratio's and rates have become habituated.<br /><br />After 2 years of low rate training, Vo2 max will have been attained in the experienced athlete, however it is most likely that AT will be a fairly low % of this and requires time to 'push' up, also while the heart and lungs may be working well the muscles need to be trained to utilize them.<br /><br />It should be noted here as well that just doing long distance low rate stuff every day for long periods (no matter how much sweat) will not necessarily elicit improvement.  Improvement comes from adaptation and if the 'body' is being shown the same stuff day after day week after week it soon realises that there is no need to adapt.<br /><br />IMHO<br /><br />George <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />IMHO, what you say here has nothing to do with the overall arc of my training. I train 4-5 hours a day. I do quite a few different things. <br /><br />And, as I said, I will also be doing a couple of months of pretty consistent rowing in and around race pace during the racing season, and eventually, I will also be doing some anaerobic stuff.<br /><br />For me personally, the race pace and anaerobic work is just race preparation. It has nothing at all to do with improvement (or holding the line against decline with age). So I like to do this sort of rowing as little as possible. The low rate work brings me increased strength, efficiency, quickness, endurance, etc., and thus improvement. The fast work just wears me out and brings me nothing at all. <br /><br />BTW, can you row 1:52 @ 18 spm? If so, have you tried doing it day after day, for 15K and up? That's rowing at 14 SPI. Good stuff.<br /><br />I continue to work on the project of pushing the 1:52 @ 18 spm to marathon length. My body has been "adapting" to the idea more and more each day. <br /><br />Progress!<br /><br />If I ever get this project done, for me, the game of training for rowing is won and done.<br /><br />ranger<br />

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->what is the statute of limitations on such statements </td></tr></table><br /><br />Statute of limitations? <br /><br /> <br /><br />What's been done has been done. That's what's nice about actions. They're real and concrete.<br /><br />Most substantial achievement doesn't come easy.<br /><br />ranger<br /><br /><br /><br />

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think that should read HAD as in past tense </td></tr></table><br /><br />No, _have_ is much more appropriate. All sports are substantially historical. They have long and sharp memories and like to tell the story of their evolution. Memory, personal and otherwise, is timeless, simultaneous.<br /><br />Some of the things associated with those rows are not just historical, too. <br /><br />For example, the 6:28 row is still the 50-54 lwt BIRC championship record. I also have the 50-54 lwt EIRC championship record, although that was not one of the WR rows. <br /><br />ranger