Damper Setting

[[old] garycolwill]

I just got a brand new (to me) Model C and have worked out on it twice. I've played with the damper setting and am curious to know what setting is usually used in the races I keep hearing about. Is it just preference, or is there a standard?

[[old] Citroen]

<!--QuoteBegin-garycolwill+Aug 26 2005, 09:27 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(garycolwill @ Aug 26 2005, 09:27 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I just got a brand new (to me) Model C and have worked out on it twice. I've played with the damper setting and am curious to know what setting is usually used in the races I keep hearing about. Is it just preference, or is there a standard? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />It's your preference.<br /><br />Use the drag factor (press <b>REST</b> & <b>OK</b> together on the PM2) then row a few strokes to see it displayed (where the HRM normally shows). [There's a menu option on a PM3 for drag factor.]<br /><br />I row everything (except the low pull) on 105-115 drag (which is about level 3 on the damper lever on the machine I normally use at the gym).<br />

[[old] John Rupp]

Here is another thread about drag factors, that includes a chart of them.<br /><br /><a href='http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... &hl=eskild' target='_blank'>http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... ild</a><br /><br />I am currently using a drag factor of 68, for steady rowing at 2:06 to 2:14 pace.

[[old] PaulS]

Citroen has nailed this one, I suggest 110DF to my rowers as a good starting place to build from. You can train yourself to be quicker by lowering the DF and maintaining the same target pace, though there is probably very little value in making modifications to go outside the range of the normal Damper settings on a clean machine will, generally a low of 95 and a high of 230.<br /><br />Make sure to get some instruction on proper techique, as it will enhance your training by avoiding injury and not having to unlearn bad habits later on. There are some training video's offered by Xeno Muller (www.gorow.com) that would likely make for a good start.<br /><br />If you transition to Rowing (on the water) in the future, you will want to tune the Drag Factor to be similar to what you feel in a boat. This is the largest difference when making the change. i.e. You need to have the quickness learned with low DF's, but since the chain does not store energy as an oar shaft does, the drive on the Erg will be too short (time) at low DF's. And even a few 10th's of a second increase in drive time make a large percentage change that requires adaptive conditioning. It can be left to do on the water, or gradually bump the Drag up 15-25 units over the weeks leading up to getting on the water.<br /><br />It would be a fair estimate that 90%+ of rowers set the drag between 105 and 145, IMO.

[[old] Citroen]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Aug 26 2005, 10:03 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Aug 26 2005, 10:03 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Citroen has nailed this one, I suggest 110DF to my rowers as a good starting place to build from.  You can train yourself to be quicker by lowering the DF and maintaining the same target pace, though there is probably very little value in making modifications to go outside the range of the normal Damper settings on a clean machine will, generally a low of 95 and a high of 230. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I found this <a href='http://www.concept2.co.uk/rower/air_resistance.php' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.co.uk/rower/air_resistance.php</a> today.<br /><br />PS. I'm still thinking of starting a "John Rupp's Iggied Forumites vIRC". Any takers?

[[old] garycolwill]

Thanks, folks - what a great resource this is!

[[old] garycolwill]

It's nice to have a resource like this forum. In the two days that I have owned my Model C, I have worked out 15 minutes and 19 minutes, each with a damper setting of 10, which I now know (using the info Citroen provided) has a DF of about 200 (fluctuates between 195 and 203). So I was rowing a really big, clumsy boat!<br /><br />I haven't seriously worked out since I got out of the Marine Corps 16 years ago, so I'm pretty out of shape. However, I was blessed with a body made for work, which is why I guess I have not suffered the injuries others have mentioned. I can certainly tell I worked muscles that are not used to working, especially my arms and upper back, but the sensation is more the pleasant achiness you get the day after a decent weight-lifting session than the sharpness of having overdone it.<br /><br />My goal, however, is not to bulk up (or I would have gotten weights) but to slim down, tone up and increase my stamina, so the advice you all have offered is well-taken. I noticed that the damper scale on the side of the rower indicates settings 3 and 4 in different colors than the rest. 3 results in a DF of 108 and 4 gets me to 124, so maybe the manufacturer is trying to tell me something? I'm going to leave it at 3 tonight when I go for 5000 meters.<br /><br />Thanks again, all!

[[old] garycolwill]

Well, I changed my damper setting to 4 and did 5k meters and my 500m pace time went from 2.58.1 yesterday to 2:34.3 today. To be fair, my change from looking at how much time I wanted to put in to looking at how many meters I wanted to travel may have had a lot to do with the improvement, but I'm sure the DF was a big contributor, too. I also learned that, counterintuitively, the number of strokes per minute is not necessarily related speed - my best split today had the lowest strokes per minute. I can conclude that the amount of power you put into each stroke is as important (or more important) than the number of strokes per minute.

[[old] Citroen]

<!--QuoteBegin-garycolwill+Aug 27 2005, 02:36 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(garycolwill @ Aug 27 2005, 02:36 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I noticed that the damper scale on the side of the rower indicates settings 3 and 4 in different colors than the rest. 3 results in a DF of 108 and 4 gets me to 124, so maybe the manufacturer is trying to tell me something? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Could be! The older model C's don't have that feature. I first saw that on an erg in Melbourne.<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin-garycolwill+Aug 27 2005, 07:38 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(garycolwill @ Aug 27 2005, 07:38 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well, I changed my damper setting to 4 and did 5k meters and my 500m pace time went from 2.58.1 yesterday to 2:34.3 today. To be fair, my change from looking at how much time I wanted to put in to looking at how many meters I wanted to travel may have had a lot to do with the improvement, but I'm sure the DF was a big contributor, too. I also learned that, counterintuitively, the number of strokes per minute is not necessarily related speed - my best split today had the lowest strokes per minute. I can conclude that the amount of power you put into each stroke is as important (or more important) than the number of strokes per minute. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />It's amazing how the rower is often counter-intuitive. Often it does the exact reverse of what you're expecting.<br /><br />I rowed a 30' session yesterday, I couldn't settle into a steady pace so I spent my 30' concentrating on technique and not worrying about distance (I actually did 7513m). For 300m in the middle I pulled as fast and hard as I could 41SPM with a 1:41 split. At another point I was pulling 2:00 splits at 17SPM. Both numbers are equally important.<br /><br />There is a way to compare those numbers. It's refered to as SPI (stroke power index). <a href='http://machars.net/spi.php' target='_blank'>http://machars.net/spi.php</a> is an online calculator for it. You'll find lots of threads on here that discuss SPI.<br /><br />

[[old] slo_boat]

<!--QuoteBegin-garycolwill+Aug 27 2005, 01:38 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(garycolwill @ Aug 27 2005, 01:38 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well, I changed my damper setting to 4 and did 5k meters and my 500m pace time went from 2.58.1 yesterday to 2:34.3 today. To be fair, my change from looking at how much time I wanted to put in to looking at how many meters I wanted to travel may have had a lot to do with the improvement, but I'm sure the DF was a big contributor, too. I also learned that, counterintuitively, the number of strokes per minute is not necessarily related speed - my best split today had the lowest strokes per minute. I can conclude that the amount of power you put into each stroke is as important (or more important) than the number of strokes per minute. </td></tr></table><br />Semper Fi!<br /><br />I think you have already discovered the most important thing about working out on the erg or any other way. Experiment! See what works for you and helps you accomplish your objectives. <br /><br />As far as drag factor, I work out at nearly every damper setting, but most of my time is spent in the mid or low range. As several people have pointed out, lower DF's help develop quickness. Higher drag factors seem to help develop power. (Somewhere on this forum is a thread by a person that used high DFs and used the erg as a rowing specific "weight" machine. It makes sense to me as the erg is essentially an isokinetic device. C2 even sells a machine based on that concept called the DYNO.) Ultimately, the "ideal" DF for you is a moving target dependent on your objectives and your particular physical attributes.<br /><br />You'll find a similar thing with stroke rate. You can use a high rate with lower power for each stroke or you can use a lower rate and use more power. Somewhere in between the two extremes is the right power and stroke rate combination for you for a particular distance.<br /><br />There's at least one person on here who instead of focusing on rate, focuses on distance per stroke. I like that method because it builds a consistent stroke and forces you to balance power, speed, and recovery time on each stroke. I do that from time to time, and it really makes a difference in my rowing.<br /><br />BTW, I'm not a coach or even a particularly good rower, and I don't play one on TV, so take my comments in that light.

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-garycolwill+Aug 26 2005, 11:38 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(garycolwill @ Aug 26 2005, 11:38 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I can conclude that the amount of power you put into each stroke is as important (or more important) than the number of strokes per minute. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Yes, exactly.<br /><br />The pm measures power with watts, and converts that to pace on the monitor.<br /><br />Thus power output is totally independent of stroke rate.<br /><br />By experimentation, you will find the stroke rate/s that enable you to generate the most power, and i.e. the fastest pace for your efforts.<br /><br />Congratulations on your improvements.