What Training Have You Done Today???

[old] neilb · Post by **[old] neilb** » January 26th, 2005, 3:38 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 25 2005, 10:27 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Once stroking power is set, raising the rate is mainly an exercise in technique, a little faster on the recovery, a little quicker with the hands. <br /><br />It's coming nicely.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />ranger,<br /><br />there is also the small matter of having the CV capability to sustain working at the higher rate with the increased stroking power. I am curious as to where you think you are as regards VO2 max? If the work done to build the base (and I understand the principles and benefits of that) is done at say 70% MHR presumably there is some work to be done on getting the VO2 max to where it needs to be? I assume the AT work is to do this but interested to know your views on this aspect of training.<br /><br />Neil B.

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 26th, 2005, 6:02 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Hi Ranger, can you explain what this actually means? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />No need to infer great rowing. Just the opposite, really. I am trying to ease into AT rowing, working on technique. The issue is not to get in better shape. I have been in good shape now for four years, working hard every day for 2-6 hours a day. No need to do more on _that_ score. The issue is efficiency--how to row as easily as you can (as relaxed as you can, as smooth as you can, as controlled as you can, etc.) at all of the various paces. <br /><br />I'm now working on this at AT paces and rates.<br /><br />ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 26th, 2005, 6:14 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>ranger,<br /><br />there is also the small matter of having the CV capability to sustain working at the higher rate with the increased stroking power. I am curious as to where you think you are as regards VO2 max? If the work done to build the base (and I understand the principles and benefits of that) is done at say 70% MHR presumably there is some work to be done on getting the VO2 max to where it needs to be? I assume the AT work is to do this but interested to know your views on this aspect of training.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I didn't monitor this, but I suspect I rowed all off season with my heart rate at or above my anaerobic threshold. No need to work more on this in a general way. What I need now is to learn to row efficiently at low drag and a high rate. I am working through this problem slowly, from low rates to high. During the off-season I rowed 15-20K a day, strapless at 13-15 SPI, at various paces and rates, but basically rowing repeatedly until my heart rate maxed out, taking a little break, and then going again. Tough stuff, but great for both power and CV capacity. <br /><br />BTW, there are _lots_ of ways to work on your CV capability. You don't even need to row, really. Just get a large hill (1-2 miles long) and run up as many times as you can, day after day. That usually does the trick for me. 10-15 miles of fartleks on the road are also great for CV capacity.<br /><br />Or get a jump rope and do double time jumping for an hour or two a day. A minute on (double time), a minute off (single time) is a nice format. <br /><br />Steppers are also great to build up aerobic capacity. Do a couple of hours a day, day after day, upping the wattage as you can. Great stuff.<br /><br />ranger

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » January 26th, 2005, 6:46 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 26 2005, 11:02 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Hi Ranger, can you explain what this actually means? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I'm now working on this at AT paces and rates.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Yes I understand that, but you posted that you did 20k at 1:41@28spm and I would just like to know how you managed that - was in short intervals or long, what was the rest periods - was it fartlek. It is impressive any way you do it so as you posted what you had done I was keen for more detail ?<br /><br />George

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 26th, 2005, 7:47 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Yes I understand that, but you posted that you did 20k at 1:41@28spm and I would just like to know how you managed that - was in short intervals or long, what was the rest periods - was it fartlek. It is impressive any way you do it so as you posted what you had done I was keen for more detail ?<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Keen as you might be, there are no more details to give. It is just a kind of free rowing with a target pace. The point of the rowing is technique. I am trying to row as easily (i.e., smoothly, evenly, rhythmically, aeorobically, etc.) at 1:41 and 28 spm as I can. The point is not to push my capacity but to minimize my effort. I take breaks whenever I lose my concentration or feel that I am not doing something as well as I should. Then I start again and try to concentrate harder or correct what I was doing wrong.<br /><br />If I can, I might point out that this problem of rowing efficiently must be by far the most important issue for big guys like you. If you are rowing at 11.5 SPI or so, you are wasting in a huge measure the God-given rowing potential that goes with your enormous size. If I were you (and had ambitious goals), in the off-season at least, I wouldn't ever row below about 15 SPI or so, higher if you could manage it. This would tap your potential power. Heck, _I_ was rowing at 15 SPI now and again in the off-season, and you are six inches taller and 75 pounds heavier (not to mention almost 10 years younger)! <br /><br />If we pull comparable paces at comparable rates, you pull only 2/3 the watts per kg that I am pulling. The remaining 1/3 is wasted in underdeveloped power and poor technique.<br /><br />With that kind of technical and muscular wastage, you pick your poison before you even begin to worry about how fast and long you row in AT workouts.<br /><br />My wall of China is 1:48 at 22 spm and 70% MHR. Yours, I think, could be much, much stiffer than that, as I mentioned, at least 1:46 @ 20 spm and 70% MHR.<br /><br />ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 26th, 2005, 7:53 am

George--<br /><br />If you pulled what I pull in watt per kg (5.2), you would row a 2K in 5:40.<br /><br />ranger

[old] donm79 · Post by **[old] donm79** » January 26th, 2005, 7:57 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 26 2005, 06:47 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Yes I understand that, but you posted that you did 20k at 1:41@28spm and I would just like to know how you managed that - was in short intervals or long, what was the rest periods - was it fartlek. It is impressive any way you do it so as you posted what you had done I was keen for more detail ?<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Keen as you might be, there are no more details to give. It is just a kind of free rowing with a target pace. The point of the rowing is technique. I am trying to row as easily (i.e., smoothly, evenly, rhythmically, aeorobically, etc.) at 1:41 and 28 spm as I can. The point is not to push my capacity but to minimize my effort. I take breaks whenever I lose my concentration or feel that I am not doing something as well as I should. Then I start again and try to concentrate harder or correct what I was doing wrong.<br /><br />If I can, I might point out that this problem of rowing efficiently must be by far the most important issue for big guys like you. If you are rowing at 11.5 SPI or so, you are wasting in a huge measure the God-given rowing potential that goes with your enormous size. If I were you (and had ambitious goals), in the off-season at least, I wouldn't ever row below about 15 SPI or so, higher if you could manage it. This would tap your potential power. Heck, _I_ was rowing at 15 SPI now and again in the off-season, and you are six inches taller and 75 pounds heavier (not to mention almost 10 years younger)! <br /><br />If we pull comparable paces at comparable rates, you pull only 2/3 the watts per kg that I am pulling. The remaining 1/3 is wasted in underdeveloped power and poor technique.<br /><br />With that kind of technical and muscular wastage, you pick your poison before you even begin to worry about how fast and long you row in AT workouts.<br /><br />My wall of China is 1:48 at 22 spm and 70% MHR. Yours, I think, could be much, much stiffer than that, as I mentioned, at least 1:46 @ 20 spm and 70% MHR.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Where does all this defensiveness come from? I don't think George asked you to exhaustively compare and contrast his rowing ability to yours. He just wanted to hear more about your session.

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 26th, 2005, 8:54 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Where does all this defensiveness come from? </td></tr></table><br /><br />Nothing defensive here at all.<br /><br />Yes, I understood the request and answered.<br /><br />The further comment was just further comment.<br /><br />Perhaps I am wrong, but like many here, George seems to be searching for some measure of my performance through the description of my workout. But training isn't racing. I am just working out. <br /><br />ranger

[old] CAROLE MAC · Post by **[old] CAROLE MAC** » January 26th, 2005, 9:40 am

steady 60 mins today pleased over 12k at 23spm average just hope I haven't lost too much fitness while this bliddy leg is in plaster .

[old] peterb · Post by **[old] peterb** » January 26th, 2005, 11:09 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 25 2005, 11:22 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Ugh. Hate that. When it happens, I hold the bike seat and run--hard. Works off the frustration. I have done as many as 15 miles with my (flat) bike on the run. <br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Ranger,<br /><br />Suggestion, sounds like it might be a wise idea to carry a spare tube or patch kit with a CO2 cartridge under your seat in case of a flat. It's makes the travel time back home quicker & alot less frustrating!!!!! <br /><br />All the Best, peterb<br /><br /><a href='http://www.nashbar.com/results.cfm?cate ... &pagename=' target='_blank'>Bike Nashbar</a>

[old] Jim Barry · Post by **[old] Jim Barry** » January 26th, 2005, 1:53 pm

Ranger, <br /><br />I've been into (and coaching) 70% HRR rowing as ONE of the benchmarks for performance for almost 5 years now. Welcome aboard. Last summer my goal was to get a 2:00 pace at 70%. It did not happen. The best I got to was 23spm and 2:04 with my HR a little under 70%. That was rowing about 250k per month but not all that hard. I think some more time and another round or real training volume could see 2:01 and under 70% (22 or 23 spm). I agree that this goal is somewhat key before I think I'm going to see other goals like a 6:45 2k etc. <br /><br />--Jim <br /><br />

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » January 26th, 2005, 4:37 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 27 2005, 01:54 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><br />Nothing defensive here at all.<br /><br />Yes, I understood the request and answered.<br /><br />The further comment was just further comment.<br /><br />Perhaps I am wrong, but like many here, George seems to be searching for some measure of my performance through the description of my workout. <br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Thankyou for your comments Ranger but it was a simple question that maybe you just didnt have an answer for. I could also post here that I did 10k or what ever at 1:30 for my training today but leave out the fact that it was spread over 2 hours - factually correct but misleading none the less as to the actual intensity of the session and the phsiological training benefit. You also make the comment about possibly measuring your performance thru a description of your workout, what other way is there, why do you post the 'numbers' if it is not a measure / reflection of performance - why do you post on this thread if you dont want people to ask? It is like playing for fun but keeping score - they dont 'compute'.<br /><br />This thread is about sharing what we do in training so that others can learn from our experinces and get ideas for their own endeavours. Thus we often see someone seeking clarification of why / how someone does a particular session. I just find the fact that you cant or wont do that interesting - I think if your going to post those sorts of numbers it is not unreasonable to expect to be asked to provide some clarification.<br /><br /> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> But training isn't racing. I am just working out. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />A final note - look back thru this thread and look at the advice / comments you have given people on their training and how it relates to their goals / racing - look at the times you have made the statement that if you can do 'X' time for a session then in some way that will give you a 'Y' indication of your 2k time. Training isnt racing we agree, but it is a pre-curser for the competitive erger - or are they to just working out?<br /><br />George<br /><br />ps If you think I am having a 'go' at you now, you would be right

[old] Rocket Roy · Post by **[old] Rocket Roy** » January 26th, 2005, 5:06 pm

12k this morning <br /><br />11k this afternoon.<br /><br />mostly fastish (for me) and working on the stroke.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 26th, 2005, 5:48 pm

George,<br /><br />Maybe this will help.<br /><br />Monday I did quite a bit of rowing at 1:50 pace or faster.<br /><br />I kept a nice smooth even rhythm and kept this up for long stretches, until I got tired, then slowed down, then picked back up and did it again, for 2 hours, or so.<br /><br />Hope that helps.

[old] donm79 · Post by **[old] donm79** » January 26th, 2005, 6:04 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 26 2005, 04:48 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>George,<br /><br />Maybe this will help.<br /><br />Monday I did quite a bit of rowing at 1:50 pace or faster.<br /><br />I kept a nice smooth even rhythm and kept this up for long stretches, until I got tired, then slowed down, then picked back up and did it again, for 2 hours, or so.<br /><br />Hope that helps. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />How much of the two hours was 1:50 or faster? Just wondered, considering that that is faster than your 2k pace.