What Training Have You Done Today???

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 15th, 2005, 2:45 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Byron Drachman @ Jan 14 2005, 02:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Yes, the erg is still harder for me, too, given equal wattage. </td></tr></table> According to this reference: <a href='http://www.atm.ox.ac.uk/rowing/physics/ ... #section13' target='_blank'>http://www.atm.ox.ac.uk/rowing/physics/ ... >Somewhere between 10 and 20 percent of your watts expended are not being measured on the rowing ergometer (without slides) so you would expect a higher reading on a stepper. In other words, the watts used to slide your body back and forth, which you would be burning even if you didn't have hold of the handle, are watts used but not measured. Byron </td></tr></table> Byron-- Thanks for the reference. Interesting. According to the reference, your numbers are high, though. The difference is more like 5% at 22 spm, 15 watts or so at the paces we are talking about (1:45-1:50). I suppose this is significant, though, and interesting to know. I have done 2 hours at 300 watts on the stepper, although this was really going at it too hard for my purposes (a second session, UT2 training, etc.). It made it so that my legs were tired the next day when I rowed. Adjusted to 285 watts for the energy used getting up and down the slide, 300 watts (1:45.3 on the erg) on the stepper, then, is equivalent to about 1:47.1 on the erg. 285 watts on the stepper would adjust to 1:49 pace (270 watts) on the erg. This is getting very close to what I have been observing. When I get completely trained with my new stroke, I think I will be able to row 1:49 with a heart rate in the middle 150s. I am not quite completely relaxed with my new stroke. I am working on it, though, and it is getting better every day. I think that the work I will do over the next month at AT, TR, and AN training bands will also affect what I will be able to do efficiently at UT2 and UT1. We'll soon see. I think that Jim is right that the legs are naturally more efficient than the full body motion involved in the rowing stroke. But that is just the technical challenge in rowing, then. How efficient can you be, given that you only use your legs as _part_ of the drive? Can you make the rotation and lift with your back as efficient as the push with your legs? Can you get a nice arm pull but still avoid the naural inefficiency of the arms relative to the back and legs? Can you become so strong in the back and arms that they also become super-efficient, relative to the normal person walking around on the street? And so forth. To do these things, the upper body of an efficient rower will have to be high developed and the back and arms positioned and sequenced in the rowing strokee so that they do very little to _initiate_ motion and power/work done. The back and arms will need to be used only to pick up and contiinue the the power generated by the legs, "drafting" seamlessly behind this use of the naturally more efficient muscles. If this isn't done (e.g., by upping the drag and throwing more weight on the upper body), efficiency (given good technique) will be lost. Or so it seems. ranger

[old] Rocket Roy · Post by **[old] Rocket Roy** » January 15th, 2005, 12:05 pm

First day back training properly for a week 20 mins stepper @ 290 w, 10k erg, 30 mins bike, 20 mins stepper @290w, 80.5 kilos

[old] Paul Smith · Post by **[old] Paul Smith** » January 15th, 2005, 1:29 pm

Today was weights in the garage and a 10K Strapless Fartlek alternating pace each 1K, 37:18.3 22/23spm

[old] Jim Barry · Post by **[old] Jim Barry** » January 15th, 2005, 3:54 pm

Hooked up to Ergmonitor today. First row without a PM (since the days with the A). Weird. 2000m at 1:54 (hr 176). 27spm 3' forced rest (meant to do 5000m straight out, but my screensaver kicked in arghh!) 2500m at 1:52 (hr 185). Ergmonitor Stats for last piece: Drive length avg 118cm Min Drive Length 112cm. Max Drive Length 127cm. Avg Drag 118 Avg SR 28.69 MPS 9.89 Drive to Recovery Ratio 1:2.32 Peak Torque Range 10 to 12 Nm (from about 40 to 50 cm) Peak Handle Force 90Kg. Peak Handle Speed 210cm/sec (at 100cm in the drive) Percent ATP energy from glycolytic Pathways: 72.5% (Kidding, it does not do this) 12 pull ups.

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 15th, 2005, 4:26 pm

Yesterday: an hour of skipping, 25K UT1 (various formats), 70 min. stepping at 285 watts Today: an hour of skipping, 25K UT1 (various formats), 70 min. stepping at 275 watts Ramping up nicely now. Pushing the UT1 down to AT. Might start some Freed workouts. 2 x 6-8K at 1:45, etc., just to see if I can do them. More UT1 stuff. 1:45 at 25 spm and 114 df. (leading with the legs) is not in the same technical world as 1:45 at 32 spm and 200 df. (leading with the back and arms). _Very_ different. 17:00 5K and 35:00 10K are looming on the horizon. In my warm up today, I was doing 1:52 at 22 spm (UT2) at 146 bpm. My heart is settling down. I am getting more and more efficient with the new stroke. Much more stress on my quads with the new stroke, especially as I approach AT paces. My legs are now doing the work. ranger

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 15th, 2005, 4:39 pm

Jim, Interesting information from ErgMonitor. I like that it shows you your stroke length (44 to 50 inches). I've estimated mine to be 46-47 inches, so this sounds in the ballpark. I would find a drive:stroke ratio useful too, however wish it as given as a percentage. It would probably be too much to ask for it to eliminate the catch and finish from the ratio, to make the drive vs recovery percentage more accurate. However it is still a nice feature and I could work around that. Peak torque range, peak handle force, and peak handle speed would be quite useful to me too. Nice results. Thanks for posting them.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 15th, 2005, 4:47 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (John Rupp @ Jan 13 2005, 04:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (ranger @ Jan 13 2005, 07:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> I still seem to be a little more efficient on the stepper than on the erg. Can't yet do 1:47 pace (285 watts) for an hour at 148 bpm on the erg, at least not with a good strong stroke (e.g., 22-24 spm).  </td></tr></table> Are you stepping at 44-48 strides per minute? </td></tr></table> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Rocket Roy @ Jan 14 2005, 12:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> John, at 213 watts I step at 61 spm at 245 watts 71, and at 287 watts 81 steps per min. </td></tr></table> Roy, Thanks for your reply. If Rich does the same, that is higher than double his 22-44 on the erg. Naturally, the watts would also be higher. The stepper appears to be slightly more than double the rowing rate, and 1/2 of a running rate. I checked on the treadmill this morning and was keeping a very even 180 strides per minute, probably that same that I do every morning.

[old] makesureyoudoitright · Post by **[old] makesureyoudoitright** » January 15th, 2005, 5:44 pm

First outing was cancelled because of a no show, so we did a 2x7' piece @ AT, then a 30 minute run at UT2/UT1. Then we did a 2 hour outing, rowing probably 15k in total.

[old] DougB · Post by **[old] DougB** » January 15th, 2005, 6:54 pm

Yesterday was a rest day so today I was full of energy again. 4000m @ 1:48 2:00 rest 4000m @ 1:47 That was too easy, so I added a bonus round (with about 8-10 minutes rest): 4000m @ 1:46 (first 2K), 1:45 (second 2K) The last 2K was 6:59.3, and even that was somewhat easy, and the only time I was breathing hard. Everything was S10MPS, with ErgMonitor this time. Those rest days sure make a big difference!

[old] Atorrante · Post by **[old] Atorrante** » January 15th, 2005, 10:26 pm

Since I'm training for upcoming 10K running races, today made a recovery row, i.e. 10K in 38:20. Have found that rowing is great as "easy days" from running (and viceversa). After a month of cross training between running and rowing, I'm feeling great at both, thank to God.

[old] neilb · Post by **[old] neilb** » January 16th, 2005, 9:24 am

I have a sore finger, I think I have strained a tendon ona 90 min row last week so took a break and used the cross trainer. 60 mins at UT1 HR pace. Legs only, hands completely free. I find that this helps me concentrate on the leg power and also as I am not holding on it recruits the stablizer muscles in the legs and the core to help maintain posture and balance.

[old] Rocket Roy · Post by **[old] Rocket Roy** » January 16th, 2005, 11:10 am

2k, 20 mins stepper 290w, 30 mins bike 2k, 20 mins stepper at 290w,

[old] Sir Pirate · Post by **[old] Sir Pirate** » January 16th, 2005, 11:36 am

Just a steady 7000m at 1:49 pace today, after yesterdays HM. Total of 10K today. Sir Pirate

[old] grams · Post by **[old] grams** » January 16th, 2005, 3:44 pm

Carol, How do you maintain such a high stroke rate for so long? I run out of air if I do 27 spm for very long, 2k is my max length for the fast stuff. What is your breathing rhythm? grams

[old] CAROLE MAC · Post by **[old] CAROLE MAC** » January 16th, 2005, 4:24 pm

Grams I use to everything at 32-33spm when I first started so I spose 27 seems low... I also do a lot of 30 mins sessions at 20-22spm .... mmmm breathing just one a stroke normally..don't know if my old swimming training kicks in with the breathing..but don't even think about it ...... today only done 5.5 k leg is aching so I am going to give it a miss now for a couple of days ... Aerial came today and I showed off and pulled a low pull of 1.48 with the foot on the cushion ..... I also made her do a 2k test cos she has become a bit tentative about doing them .....she did have a cold but she was only 4 secs down on her Pb .... so hopefully the pink dragon as she has nicknamed me will be able to cox her to a pb in Glasgow next week .