<!--quoteo(post=59226:date=Mar 13 2006, 06:59 PM:name=PaulS)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Mar 13 2006, 06:59 PM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--quoteo(post=59222:date=Mar 13 2006, 10:44 AM:name=FrancoisA)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(FrancoisA @ Mar 13 2006, 10:44 AM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Paul, I have pretty much read all of what Mike has written on the WP, and I don't remember that he mentioned this 10 mps as part of the training.<br /> </td></tr></table><br />You would have to read Mikes forum posts, it is clearly mentioned there. Not in relation to the low rate stuff, but to the other levels.<br /> </td></tr></table><br />L4 workouts make up 65-70% of training volume in the WP and they are not done at 10mps. L3 workouts take up another 25% of training volume, and are done at 85 to 90% of 2K velocity at 24-28 spm, which for most people, is not 10 mps. L2 workouts (6-8% of training volume) are done at 90-95% of 2K speed and at 26-32 spm, which, depending on people, may or may not be at 10 mps. Finally, L1 workouts are done at 2K to 2K-3 pace and at 30-36 spm, which, except for the faster ergers will be below 10 mps. <br /><br />So in IMHO 10mps is irrelevant to the WP, but to be sure, I will ask Mike on the Wolverine thread.<br /><!--quoteo(post=59226:date=Mar 13 2006, 06:59 PM:name=PaulS)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Mar 13 2006, 06:59 PM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--quoteo(post=59222:date=Mar 13 2006, 10:44 AM:name=FrancoisA)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(FrancoisA @ Mar 13 2006, 10:44 AM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Yes, but then if I do 1:48 @ SR27, I will no longer be at 10 mps but at 10.3. So, who is contradicting himself?
<br /> </td></tr></table><br />Come on, you know I was just giving an example, I guess I should have said if S10PS is too easy at 1:50 for you, go to 1:49 (S10PS), or 1:48 (S10PS). But you knew that already, didn't you?
<br /> </td></tr></table><br />My original point was that at a given pace, and I used 1:50 as an example, I don't find it harder to maintain 10 mps at SR27 than 11.36 mps at SR24.<br /><!--quoteo(post=59226:date=Mar 13 2006, 06:59 PM:name=PaulS)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Mar 13 2006, 06:59 PM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--quoteo(post=59222:date=Mar 13 2006, 10:44 AM:name=FrancoisA)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(FrancoisA @ Mar 13 2006, 10:44 AM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Well, it is for me. I am not any faster at stroke rates above 34.<br /> </td></tr></table><br />That's fine, work on it. You think you will learn to get the rate up by training at low rates? Interesting.<br />Obvioulsy you can not maintain your drive power at rates above 34, it just depends on what you consider the source of this problem, the drive, the recovery, or both.<br /> </td></tr></table><br />I think it is a misinterpretation to say that the WP is training at low rates! I am not sure who should reread Mike's posts! <br />Regarding rates, there are quite a few WRs that were done at around 34spm. So that is good enough for me! Moreover, I think you also mentioned that higher SR are not as efficient.<br /><br /><!--quoteo(post=59226:date=Mar 13 2006, 06:59 PM:name=PaulS)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Mar 13 2006, 06:59 PM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--quoteo(post=59222:date=Mar 13 2006, 10:44 AM:name=FrancoisA)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(FrancoisA @ Mar 13 2006, 10:44 AM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>The 1:38 in my signature was the last 500m of an 8x500m L1 workout, so it is somewhat "soft". Nonetheless, you are quite right that I have an imbalance towards endurance. The truth is the imbalance was a lot worse before I started using the WP. In fact, before, I could only hold 1:38 for three consecutive strokes, now, I can hold 1:35!
<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Well, firm it up. That's what signatures are for, aren't they? <br />Do you know how Dennis trained during the time leading up to his WR? I have a pretty good idea. 8)<br /> </td></tr></table><br />In fact all the times in my signature are soft and were done as part of training. 8) Erging takes second seat to my swimming, which currently at 10 hours/week is quite demanding. I also run and bike!<br />I am not denying that s10mps training works for some. All I am saying is that the WP, which incidentally has also good track record, works for me, and that the foundation part of that plan is not done a 10mps.<br /><br />Now, can we just agree to disagree!
<br /><br />Cheers!<br /><br />Francois
<br /><br />I'm not sure what there is to disagree about, but if you would like to, ok...<br /><br />I've only read through the WP completely 1 time, but I have read many of Mike's posts to answer peoples questions, have fun asking again, I'm sure his answer will be fine, or he will spank you for not paying attention to something that has been answered already.<br /><br />Did I ever say anything bad about the WP? Please point it out if you think I am in some way deriding it, or any other plan for that matter. Just different ways of accomplishing similar things. I've also made no secret of the fact that I think of the Erg as a tool for improving what we do in boats, not as an end to itself. If it were an end unto itself there may be some small changes I would consider but the foundations would be the same.<br />
<br /><br />Workout 1: 60min steady state UT1 intensity (approx)<br /><br />s10ps: - duration 60min / avg watts 202.5 / sr 25 / 8.1spi / 10mps<br /><br />other: - duration 60min / avg watts 202.5 / sr 20 / 10.12spi / 12.5mps<br /><br /><br /><br />Workout 2: 3 x 10min intervals AT (approx) (about 5k pace)<br /><br />s10ps: - duration 10min / avg watts 302.3 / sr 28.57 / 10.58spi / 10mps<br /><br />other: - duration 10min / avg watts 302.3 / sr 24 / 12.59spi / 11.9mps<br /><br /><br />Notes:<br /><br />s10ps:- rate increase 14.28%, spi increase 30.62%, dps remained the same<br />other :- rate increase 20.00%, spi increase 24.40%, dps decreased by 4.8%<br /><br />So I picked a couple of workouts at random and accept they are taken in isolation, and I am not really sure of what the numbers are telling me in detail but here are some thoughts:<br /><br />Using 's10ps' I did not have to up my rate significantly so there was not a lot of change in my 'timing' during the stroke, it still flowed but just flowed a little faster. I need to apply more power in the drive, hence the increase in spi (but it is still not huge spi numbers), of course I am still covering the same dps .... what is pleasing is that I am moving closer to my planned 2k rate of 32 so am getting a 'real' feel for higher rates.<br /><br />Using 'other' I had a good strong workout, upped the rate by 20% but again not a lot of change in timing (I dont know the numbers this may be wrong). Interestingly my spi did not increase as much as the s10ps and my dps dropped. Of some concern tho is that I am still a long way from my 2k rate<br /><br />just my thoughts 
<br /><br />George
<br />On water rowing is something I plan to do on a regular basis this summer. I took a "learn to row" class last year on an 8+ and it was a lot of fun!<br /><br />All the best!<br /><br />Francois
