Training With Heart Rate

[old] afolpe · Post by **[old] afolpe** » November 9th, 2005, 2:23 pm

I haven't trained with a HRM in over a year, but I found a used one recently and thought I'd give it a go again. I've been training pretty much entirely on pace and "perceived effort". Rowed last night about 8000 meters at a 1:56-7 pace, and then sat down to do my usual 10K today at lunch. I typically do this at anywhere between 1:55 and 2:00, rarely 2:01 if I'm feeling so-so. Anyway, my resting HR when I started was my usual 48-50, but it seemed to go rather quickly to 160-70, even though I didn't feel like I was working particularly hard at all, and my pace was a really slow 2:02 (I was trying to force myself to follow the HRM). I know from past experience that my max at least used to be around 190, so presumably I was doing this really mellow feeling piece at 90% of max ???!!!???. This makes little to no sense. So, what is going on here? Was a maybe dehydrated or something, making my pulse go up really quickly? Why didn't this feel like a difficult effort at all? I think the HRM is accurate- it at least seems to be responding to ups and down in effort. Should I pay attention to the HRM or just go back to plain old "perceived effort"? Thanks, Andrew

[old] rspenger · Post by **[old] rspenger** » November 9th, 2005, 4:01 pm

I recently purchased the pulse rate receiver for the PM3, but I haven't had the nerve to hook it up yet. I regularly use the monitor when I work out on a treadmill, where at 15 degrees of elevation and 3.5 4 mph, my pulse generally stays at 120-125, i.e. 86-90% of my formula max (139bps). But every one in a while I get odd spikes of a few seconds (sometimes even minutes) where it jumps up over the formula max up into the 140s. I am sure that many or most of my erg workouts are at a higher intensity than my treadmill walks, but I don't want to be inhibited by seeing the pulse rate go up too damn high. I would just as soon not know about it. Bob S.

[old] PUBA · Post by **[old] PUBA** » November 10th, 2005, 5:28 pm

I swear by the HRM for cycling training and running. But when it comes to the erg I find the same thing happens. I use the HR attachment for the PM-3 regularly. Although it is there, I only pay close attention to it when I am doing what is supposed to be a "recovery" row. It does keep from "cheating".

[old] Godfried · Post by **[old] Godfried** » November 10th, 2005, 6:09 pm

I need the HRM to plan my pace during a PB attempt or long row. I start around the pace I want to do the row, and try to keep the HR under xxx / yyy / zzz with aaa / bbb / ccc minutes to go, so I won't blow up [?] .

[old] tomraven · Post by **[old] tomraven** » January 22nd, 2006, 8:49 pm

I got a shock today. I set my PM3 for a 1 hr row and I was rowing at a nice pace of 2:15 with my heart rate sitting on 140 when I noticed it spike up to +-160 for a seconfd or 2. It did it 4 times over a 25min period. After the 4th time I was so spooked I slowed down to a 2:25 pace for the remainder of the session. What can have caused it?

[old] BigFatFishy · Post by **[old] BigFatFishy** » January 23rd, 2006, 3:00 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(tomraven @ Jan 22 2006, 07:49 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I got a shock today. I set my PM3 for a 1 hr row and I was rowing at a nice pace of 2:15 with my heart rate sitting on 140 when I noticed it spike up to +-160 for a seconfd or 2. It did it 4 times over a 25min period. After the 4th time I was so spooked I slowed down to a 2:25 pace for the remainder of the session. What can have caused it? </td></tr></table> It could have been a simple glitch in the pickups on the chestband, or in the receiver. You didn't mention if YOU felt a spike in your HR. I woudln't worry about it, but if you're really concerned, go see a doctor. Personally I love workouts that deliberately vary the heart rate up and down. I don't have a PM3, but I have a Polar HR watch that can download data into my PC, so I can see the heart rate peaks and valleys graphed out later. It's very cool.

[old] tomraven · Post by **[old] tomraven** » January 23rd, 2006, 8:56 pm

No, I felt fine. Having looked around on the internet, it could be caused by a loose chest strap. Apparently the strap can produce flase signals as it makes and breaks contact with the skin, esecialy when extending the arms as we do whilst rowing.

[old] ljwagner · Post by **[old] ljwagner** » January 29th, 2006, 3:41 pm

I use a Polar HRM, or did until I had bypass surgery Jan 13. I noticed my HR would drift more depending on my mental focus. Over time it did drift upwards, but I also had 99% blockage in two coronary arteries, and high in a third (I had a triple bypass). Doctors will all advise you to stay below the calculated 70% HR. Rowing pushes the HR because it is full body on all the big muscles: leg, glutes, back, abs, arms plus more. Walking and cycling use fewer major muscles, so effort can be higher because blood distribution is not as great all over the body. But rowing is really good for you/us/everyone. 70% effort is like sleeping on a C2 if you are in even decent, not great, condition. If you have concerns, keep a log. Back off a bit on the upper end of your workout so you don't push the 90% and up range. If you get any pains, no matter how small, consider an angiogram. You'll probably have a negative EKG ( I had 6, including the night before my surgery, when I had intense angina, in the hospital, for 8 minutes). Stress echocardiograms will show you fit as a fiddle, which will be correct, but they can't show blockage. They show heart walls and valves, not circulation. I was getting over a strained mitral valve, and was unaware of any arterial blockage. I first used my treadmill for 4 months until I could walk at a 125 HR with no perceived effort, breathing normally, at about 3.5 mph and 6% grade. (I started at 5% grade, 1.5 mph, a 104 HR, breathing normally.) But I could not walk or jog without my HR jumping to 150 in 30 seconds or less. I then went to my C2, and rowed steady state for a month or so in the 120s, then 130's, then the low 140's. For age 52, with 168 as my calculated max, 152 was 90% effort, 135 was 80% effort, 119 was 70% effort. After a boring month in the 140's, I tried pushing myself more, and could do somewhat harder intervals,and even go to 160+, or 170+ for 20-30 seconds. I went to 150 HR for long rows, like 2Ks. After a few weeks doing this occasionally, I got some very minor discomfort in odd spots in my chest. Trying to figure out how I got clogged arteries, I am also looking into the Blood Type Diet. Seems it recommends against Type A blood group doing highly strenuous exercise. All others it says are fine with it. I'm Type A blood. It lists quite a few foods athat are good or bad for you depending on blood type. Type A, red meat very bad. Type O, red meat very good. Very thorough. Homeopathic, so if you don't like homeopathic, don't look at it. Another calculated HR method I've seen is to use is Heart Rate reserve. If you are 40, use 220 - age as 100%. So 180. If resting HR is 50, then your range is 50-180, with 13 point intervals of 10% effort. So 90% effort is 167, not 162 subtracting 18 points. 70% effort is 180-(3x13)=141, not 180-(3x18)=126. Those numbers are still low to people who row, but they are more accurate, and more reasonable estimates for people in very good condition. Perceived effort is important, but being good to yourself is necessary, too. Its easy to be in great condition without finding out when you when you went over the line. Train, but watch being obsessive. Don't be dehydrated prior to a workout or PB. A glass of water 30 minutes or so before a workout gives time to absorb it. 64 ounces a day, plus sweat replacement. Dehydration also bumps up your blood pressure. Excess water screws up your electrolytes.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 29th, 2006, 4:30 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(ljwagner @ Jan 29 2006, 11:41 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Trying to figure out how I got clogged arteries </td></tr></table> What has your drug-free total cholesterol reading been over the last few years?

[old] rspenger · Post by **[old] rspenger** » January 29th, 2006, 6:12 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(ljwagner @ Jan 29 2006, 12:41 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Don't be dehydrated prior to a workout or PB. A glass of water 30 minutes or so before a workout gives time to absorb it. 64 ounces a day, plus sweat replacement. Dehydration also bumps up your blood pressure. Excess water screws up your electrolytes. </td></tr></table> Hydration and electrolyte balance can be very tricky business. Humidity is a major factor and I have never seen any discussion of its quantitative effects. Here in the Owens Valley, the relative humidity is often 30% or below, so respiratory water loss is a major factor. The use of fruit juices or electrolytic drinks alone can result in dehydration. They have to be diluted (or supplemented) with just plain water. If you work out in high humidity and the major water loss is from sweating, then electrolyte replacement would be more important. Bob S.

[old] rspenger · Post by **[old] rspenger** » January 29th, 2006, 6:45 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(ljwagner @ Jan 29 2006, 12:41 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Trying to figure out how I got clogged arteries, I am also looking into the Blood Type Diet. Seems it recommends against Type A blood group doing highly strenuous exercise. All others it says are fine with it. I'm Type A blood. It lists quite a few foods athat are good or bad for you depending on blood type. Type A, red meat very bad. Type O, red meat very good. Very thorough. Homeopathic, so if you don't like homeopathic, don't look at it. </td></tr></table> I had never before heard of the Blood Type Diet and I was going to ask you about it in my previous response to your message. However, I decided to be a good boy and do my own homework, i.e. I did a Barney on Blood Type Diet. There were a lot of hits, but the following caught my eye: <a href='http://www.earthsave.org/news/bloodtyp.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.earthsave.org/news/bloodtyp.htm</a> It does, indeed, explain what this diet is all about, but, in my opinion, it does an excellent job of demolishing the whole concept. As a Type O, I would find D'Adamo's theories flattering, but after reading Dr. Klaper's article, I am inclined to regard the theories as a bunch of crap. regards, Bob S. P.S. I hope that your rehab is going well. Keep us up to date.

[old] ljwagner · Post by **[old] ljwagner** » January 29th, 2006, 10:14 pm

Ouch ! I'll look at that link. It is interesting, but I do wonder about it, too. I had not tried doing a review search to look for contrary opinions on it yet. My total cholesterol was about 140 for a many years, then went up to about 180.

[old] ljwagner · Post by **[old] ljwagner** » January 30th, 2006, 3:14 am

I read part of the link, and the author cites one study in particular where he'd like to see pictures for proof. The encyclopedic version does have 200 references in the 4 chapters of text, and another 300 (est.) in a further section on diseases and their relationships to blood types. The author cites about 90% effectiveness of blood type diet for people who have gone on the diets he prescribed for them depending on blood type (up to a few years ago). That's not bad considering the variability in diets. Nevertheless, I'm a pretty odd bird for triple bypass surgery at age 53. Two arteries 99% blocked, and the third with multiple locations of 80+% blockage. September 2002 I was doing 15 minutes of stair climbing twice a day at work, 1300 steps two at a time. Plus home exercise, and yard work weekends. Punishing my 17 year old nephew in half court basketball 1-on-1 a few times a week. I cut dairy 7 years ago to only low fat string cheese, a few ounces a week. Red meat to a few times a month. Lots of vegies. Oatmeal, eggwhites, and tomatoes for breakfast 4-5 times a week. No crackers for years. Once a month pizza perhaps, but that should not do it. October 2002, I apparently took on a bacteria that invaded my mitral valve and puffed it like popcorn, and within a week of doing 54 flights of stairs twice a day, effortlessly, I could not do 6 without some chest pain and breathing hard. Its been up and down since, even though I've done recovery work on treadmill and rower twice in 3 years. Something odd in having a great heart one week, and not the next, and finally having such total blockage three years later that they schedule me for the next available bypass the day after an angiogram, bumping me past others previously scheduled since they did not like my odds of survival for even another day. I get a little stress, but I don't think it could account for negating all the stuff I was doing right. Back on topic, respiratory water loss can be a lot. I typically lose 1 1/2 - 2 pounds over night that I believe is water. Know your environment and how much water to drink. Logging your exercise times and how you feel is a good idea, too. Not to be obsessive, but for a record. When rowing or walking on the treadmill the past year, I logged my heart rate every three minutes. Rowing on a long piece, I'd check both pace and hr and try to stay consistent in both.

[old] RobertS · Post by **[old] RobertS** » January 30th, 2006, 9:28 am

Well I'm very (very) new to all this, only 3 weeks in I do 10K a day, 6 days a week @ around 41- 43 mins and then 30 mins on the elliptical. This is damn tiring for me! I don't use an HRM and have never done in the past, but the ellitpical trainer has monitoring hand holds. I check my HR, just out of interest really at 20 mins and 10 mins remaining. Sometimes it shows 150-165+ other times only 75-85 type figures. I feel pretty knackered either way and can't really tell much difference physically - though this is probably down to my in-experience! I use quite a 'stepped' program with varying intensity, so this is probably why, but my rates still seem a bit weird to me at times. I do sometimes wonder if I push too hard on the 10K (I know my times are extremely slow by any of your standards, but I know I'm pushing hard at my level!) and can be absolutely exhausted climbing on to the elliptical after but keep pushing to the finish no matter what. Still no pain, no gain or something... Rob

[old] ljwagner · Post by **[old] ljwagner** » January 30th, 2006, 2:06 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(RobertS @ Jan 30 2006, 06:28 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Well I'm very (very) new to all this, only 3 weeks in I do 10K a day, 6 days a week @ around 41- 43 mins and then 30 mins on the elliptical. This is damn tiring for me! </td></tr></table> You are getting exercise to feel better, not to be tired. I would say cut back both at least some until workouts leave you feeling refreshed. If you're already "knackered", its time for a break, if not to just stop for the day. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> I don't use an HRM and have never done in the past, but the ellitpical trainer has monitoring hand holds. I check my HR, just out of interest really at 20 mins and 10 mins remaining. Sometimes it shows 150-165+ other times only 75-85 type figures. </td></tr></table> Those are huge differences, and inappropriate for a beginner. I came across an article last year, which stated that well-conditioned athletes at 80+% of their heart rate maximums were actually doing healthy aerobics, whereas poorly conditioned people pushing themselves to the same percentages of their heart rate were doing anerobic activity over too long of a sustained period that caused build-up of the very anti-oxidants that they were trying to overcome through exercise. Oops. Slow down. Work up to the rough stuff. Is your goal to feel incredible in 5 years, or be compost in a pine box, and feel miserable taking yourself there ? Uh, the "No Pain, No Gain" went out of style a long time ago. Some folks get by hurting themselves, but in the long run, small injuries lead to big ones. If you hit your head and it hurts, do you repeat the process ? No. Why do it to muscles or joints ? In Lactate training, there is discomfort, but even with that there is a plan, and limits to what is wise to do. Back your workouts to levels where it is a little challenging, but after 10 minutes of recovery, you should feel pretty good, no nap required. I would even say you ought to feel a little hungry. Over time, as the workouts feel easier, ratchet them up a LITTLE every other week. Also if you really think of yourself as out of shape, only workout every other day. Until, again, the workouts start to feel easy.