Breathing

[[old] ranger]

I am sure this has been discussed many times, but since changing my technique, I have been somewhat ambivalent about where to breath, at the catch or at the finish. In pictures of well known rowers of various sorts, they seem to be exhaling (puffing their cheeks out, etc.) at the finish of the drive and therefore inhaling on the recovery, going up the slide to the catch.<br /><br />I am wondering about this, because I strongly prefer just the opposite: to inhale at the finish of the drive and exhale on the recovery going up the slide to the catch.<br /><br />Is there one (proven) best place to breathe during the stroke cycle, or is it just a matter of personal preference, with no benefit or deteriment to performance one way or another?<br /><br />I chatted once with an exercise physiologist friend of the family who said that a graduate student of hers was trying to study this issue. Have these matters been studied by others?<br /><br />ranger

[[old] gw1]

I exhale after the leg drive of the stroke. Start the recovery, then once my arms are way start to inhale.<br /><br />GW

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin-gw1+Jan 7 2006, 12:09 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(gw1 @ Jan 7 2006, 12:09 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I exhale after the leg drive of the stroke. Start the recovery, then once my arms are way start to inhale.<br /><br />GW <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Yea, that seems standard.<br /><br />What I do is not standard at all, it seems!<br /><br />Should I worry about this?<br /><br />I certainly do what you do when I paddle (a canoe). _Couldn't_ breathe in when I pull the padde, breathe out when I recover the paddle for the next stroke.<br /><br />ranger<br />

[[old] TomB722]

it doesn't really matter. whatever feels most comfortable to you. most people tend to exhale at the end of the drive, in a similar way you might when weight lifting--when the resistance is applied you feel compelled to breathe out. but rowing isnt the same thing as weight lifting. it's probably not worth overthinking your breathing, just let it happen naturally.

[[old] etech12]

The problem I have is breathing in while compressing my abs on the recovery. It it like breathing in while doing a sit-up. But that is how I do it. It doesn't feel like I am getting a deep breath.

[[old] ancho]

There already was a thread about this.<br />Take a look at the thread <a href='http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... c=2659&hl=' target='_blank'>Breathing Technique</a><br />With your new stroke and breathing properly, you should smash your WR! <br />Good luck!!

[[old] ranger]

Thanks for the info!<br /><br />I am delighted to hear what Xeno had to say on the other thread. That puts some of my worries to rest.<br /><br />When I was learning to use more of the slide with my new stroke, I exactly adjusted my breathing so that, exhaling on the recovery, I got better and easier compression at the catch. This is the practice I have followed ever since. <br /><br />The logic I used seems to have occurred to others.<br /><br />I think I'll stick with it.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] Fast Forward]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Jan 7 2006, 09:28 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 7 2006, 09:28 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I am sure this has been discussed many times, but since changing my technique, I have been somewhat ambivalent about where to breath, at the catch or at the finish. In pictures of well known rowers of various sorts, they seem to be exhaling (puffing their cheeks out, etc.) at the finish of the drive and therefore inhaling on the recovery, going up the slide to the catch.<br /><br />I am wondering about this, because I strongly prefer just the opposite: to inhale at the finish of the drive and exhale on the recovery going up the slide to the catch.<br /><br />Is there one (proven) best place to breathe during the stroke cycle, or is it just a matter of personal preference, with no benefit or deteriment to performance one way or another?<br /><br />I chatted once with an exercise physiologist friend of the family who said that a graduate student of hers was trying to study this issue. Have these matters been studied by others?<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Your ambivalence seems to be supported by research. See: <br />See: <a href='http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0366.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0366.htm</a> and <a href='http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0960.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0960.htm</a><br />and finally <a href='http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... med_docsum' target='_blank'>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... _docsum</a>

[[old] TedCG]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I am wondering about this, because I strongly prefer just the opposite: to inhale at the finish of the drive and exhale on the recovery going up the slide to the catch. </td></tr></table><br /><br />I have asthma, and find that I really have to concentrate on <i>exhaling</i>. My pattern has developed to just what you describe; big gulp at the end of the drive, then blow out all the way up the rail to the catch. After reading the earlier thread on breathing, I tried the >standard< pattern and just floundered, even at low exertion levels. Also, taking the inhale at the end seems to help prevent rushing the recovery; a little pause with the lungs full of new air feels good!<br /><br /><br /><br />

[[old] Ray79]

Was doing a bit of a clear out of my computer and I stumbled across an article on breathing I had taken off the C2 UK website. The full link is here <a href='http://www.concept2.co.uk/training/breathing.php' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.co.uk/training/breathing.php</a>

[[old] Alissa]

<!--QuoteBegin-Ray79+Jan 12 2006, 02:34 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Ray79 @ Jan 12 2006, 02:34 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Was doing a bit of a clear out of my computer and I stumbled across an article on breathing I had taken off the C2 UK website. The full link is here <a href='http://www.concept2.co.uk/training/breathing.php' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.co.uk/training/brea ... </a>[right] </td></tr></table><br />Thanks Ray, interesting article. It supports a conclusion that ragged, panting arrhythmic breathing (which is what the researcher had observed in rowers in competition—I wonder where and at what level?) is inefficient physiologically, and that it should be replaced with deep inhalations and prolonged, strong exhalations. <br /><br />He also suggests that if a previous pattern of panting, etc. is to be avoided when the rower is fatigued or stressed, that the new breathing pattern should be practiced so that old patterns will not reassert themselves. He goes on to suggest that “[p]rior to, and after a row, aerate the lungs through full inhalation followed by full exhalation for a half a dozen cycles. You will be better prepared and should recover quicker.” I understand why after the event, but am not certain why before…anyone?<br /><br />However it looks as if his conclusions go beyond the facts he cites. He says:<br /><!--QuoteBegin-Harry Welsh+ "Breathing for Indoor Rowing"--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Harry Welsh @ "Breathing for Indoor Rowing")</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So it follows that exhalation, that is prolong [<i>sic</i>] and strong, during an endurance or demanding event, will benefit the aerobic performance, as will a deeper inhalation. The suggested rhythm of breathing should be co-ordinated with the stroke rhythm. This is the drive and recovery. The pattern should then be exhalation with the drive then inhalation with the recovery. </td></tr></table><br />While the physiology he discusses doesn't seem to require it, his suggestion that the breathing should be coordinated with the stroke (drive & recovery) seems reasonable (although not necessarily supported by his physiology discussion). <br /><br />However his last statement, that "the pattern should be exhalation with the drive then inhalation with the recovery" doesn't seem to be supported by anything he reports in his article—and seems simply one of the possibilities for coordinating deep rhythmic breathing with the stroke cycle.<br /><br />Alissa<br />

[[old] H_2O]

<!--QuoteBegin-Ray79+Jan 12 2006, 05:34 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Ray79 @ Jan 12 2006, 05:34 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Was doing a bit of a clear out of my computer and I stumbled across an article on breathing I had taken off the C2 UK website. The full link is here <a href='http://www.concept2.co.uk/training/breathing.php' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.co.uk/training/breathing.php</a> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Interesting but I don't believe it and it seems to be<br />at odds with what most people seem to be doing:<br />Exhale at catch and finish, inhale accordingly, ie. two breaths per stroke cycle.<br /><br />For me it is inconceivable to take only one breath per stroke cycle when rowing fast and I have a large vital capacity (measured at 7 liters when I was younger).<br /><br />I am used to slow breathing since I was a swimmer swimming a fairly long stroke<br />forcing the breathing to be slow.<br /><br />Subsequent experience has taught me that it is better to breathe more often and shallower if you can.<br /><br />For example on a bike when pulling hard I am certainly not breathing deeply and slowly rather I ventilate much more quickly than on a rowing machine or when swimming.<br /><br />The total amount of air ventilated through the lungs will be larger.<br />This also increases the average differential of gas concentrations in the lungs<br />since each new breath establishes a new maximum differential.<br /><br />I would guess that the gas exchange tapers off exponentially with time so that most of it happens up front und you are better off exhaling again rahter than hold on for some additional residual exchange.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

[[old] Ray79]

Just to reiterate, I didnt write the article . Dont shoot the messenger as they say.<br /><br />I think the deep breathing exercises he suggests before an event/training are aimed at fully loading the body with oxygen. I dont understand the physiology behind it (im an engineer not a doctor) but I beileve that free divers use a complex system of deep breathing so as to allow them to stay under for longer.<br />Does anyone have any info on this??<br /><br />I myself generally try and take one full breath per stroke, exhale during the drive to the finish, and inhale on the recovery. I would find it difficult to do it any other way. And therefore I get the characteristic "puffed cheeks" at the finish. This does go a bit wayward in the closing stages of a 2km or any peice of rowing. Resting we only breathe 12 times a minute so even rowing at rate 20 - hence 20 breaths a minute is quite a step up in that.<br />I dont agree however that you ventilate more air through the lungs by breathing more shallow, more often. The majority of the lung surface area is located in the deep lung, in the alveoli. This is the only place where oxygen can be passed to the blood stream most efficiently and importantly C02 is removed from the blood. Breathing more deeply ventelates more alveoli and hence more oxygen transport. Therefore it stands to reason that breathing deeply, not more slowly, whilst working hard would be best as your body will be getting more of the oxygen it needs.

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-H_2O+Jan 13 2006, 03:40 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(H_2O @ Jan 13 2006, 03:40 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->For me it is inconceivable to take only one breath per stroke cycle when rowing fast and I have a large vital capacity (measured at 7 liters when I was younger). </td></tr></table><br /><br />I am coming to this conclusion too.<br /><br />I've been rowing with 1 breath per stroke on everything, which works okay until getting to 2k + 5 pace and below. This also works okay for 500 meters, as it is over quickly and most of the breathing can be made up for afterwards. However, considerable difficulty has arisen when going for 1k and 2k times in particular.<br /><br />It has been strange being able to do 10x 2:00 with 2:00 rests at 2k pace, and then bonking when going past 2:00 at slower than a 2k pace on a time trial. The answer to this can well be that most all of my recovery on the reps was not coming during them, but rather in the pauses between them. <br /><br />My not breathing often enough during the reps translated to a holding of my breath, which works ok when there are pauses between, but not when the pace is more intense and continuous. <br /><br />I experimented with breathing twice per stroke some yesterday and it worked well. I am looking forward to practicing this more and then seeing how it works out in some time trials.<br /><br />

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-Alissa+Jan 12 2006, 08:28 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Alissa @ Jan 12 2006, 08:28 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->supports a conclusion that ragged, panting arrhythmic breathing (which is what the researcher had observed in rowers in competition—I wonder where and at what level?) is inefficient physiologically, and that it should be replaced with deep inhalations and prolonged, strong exhalations.  </td></tr></table><br /><br />I agree that his conclusions are way off.<br /><br />First he says to avoid panting, and then he says to replace that with deep inhalations.<br /><br />Well panting and deep inhalations both result in the over breathing of oxygen.<br /><br />As long as the blood is 99+% saturated with oxygen, it's not possible to get any higher than that. The important thing is to keep the balance of co2 and o2, which is "not" done by either panting nor deep inhalations but, rather, focusing on the exhalation and letting inhalation take care of itself.