Weight Training

[old] RobertS · Post by **[old] RobertS** » January 27th, 2006, 10:09 am

I've been rowing for only a few weeks so far, but am fairly pleased with my results (losing some weight, muscles firming up - just feeling a lot better in general). My aims are to lose weight and get fit/in shape (as mentioned in my previous post) here: <a href='http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... entry51485' target='_blank'>http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... 485</a> I do 10K a day (6 days/week) @ 25-6 SPM in 41-43 mins (getting better each week )setting 5 resistance then 30 mins on the elliptical trainer. 1,000 calories/day minimum. I'm 28, 6ft and around 13.5 stone. I'm thinking of adding some light weight lifting to my work out to add some muscle definition. I'm not looking to gain huge amounts of bulk, just work up what I've got and get it 'toned/lean' so to speak. We have machines at my work gym, but I was hoping to use mainly the dumbbells, sit-ups and push-ups for a series of upper body workouts lasting around 15 mins for 3-6 days a week. I've searched the net for some workout routines (preferably with diagrams) but thought I might be able to find better advice here. If someone could point me in the right direction of such a workout or give a bit of advice it would be much appreciated. Also is it better to lose all the weight I want to first before any weight training and is it ok/beneficial to lift the weights after my CV exercise (seems as though this would be best for me)? Thanks, Rob

[old] RowtheRockies · Post by **[old] RowtheRockies** » January 27th, 2006, 12:54 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(RobertS @ Jan 27 2006, 08:09 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I've been rowing for only a few weeks so far, but am fairly pleased with my results (losing some weight, muscles firming up - just feeling a lot better in general). My aims are to lose weight and get fit/in shape (as mentioned in my previous post) here: <a href='http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... entry51485' target='_blank'>http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... 485</a> I do 10K a day (6 days/week) @ 25-6 SPM in 41-43 mins (getting better each week )setting 5 resistance then 30 mins on the elliptical trainer. 1,000 calories/day minimum. I'm 28, 6ft and around 13.5 stone. I'm thinking of adding some light weight lifting to my work out to add some muscle definition. I'm not looking to gain huge amounts of bulk, just work up what I've got and get it 'toned/lean' so to speak. We have machines at my work gym, but I was hoping to use mainly the dumbbells, sit-ups and push-ups for a series of upper body workouts lasting around 15 mins for 3-6 days a week. I've searched the net for some workout routines (preferably with diagrams) but thought I might be able to find better advice here. If someone could point me in the right direction of such a workout or give a bit of advice it would be much appreciated. Also is it better to lose all the weight I want to first before any weight training and is it ok/beneficial to lift the weights after my CV exercise (seems as though this would be best for me)? Thanks, Rob </td></tr></table> Rob, I to have just begun rowing. I live two minutes from my office so come home for an early lunch and do my rowing then. In the evenings, I do pushups, pullups, chinups, dips and dumbell bench press 4 days a week in the comfort of my own home. I have been doing the above routine (without the rowing) for about 3 years now. I used to spend a lot of time doing a lot of sets of each but have with experience devised a workout that takes me about 4 minutes of actual work and about 35 minutes to complete. The only time I am working is for those 4 minutes, the rest of the time I am resting (reading, watching tv what ever) Basically this is how it goes: Day 1 1 set up pullups to failure with a 30lb. dumbell between legs Rest anywhere from 7 to 10 minutes 1 set of chinups to failure with a 30lb. dumbell between legs Rest anywhere from 7 to 10 minutes 1 set of pullups to failure with just body weight. Day 2 1 set of Dumbell Presses on bench to failure (I have 55lb. dumbells) Rest 7 to 10 minutes 1 set of regular pushups to failure Rest 7 to 10 minutes 1 set of dips to failure with 30lb. dumbell between legs Bonus: If feeling really good, I will throw in a set to failure of close grip (diamond) pushups and a set of wide stance pushups (7 minutes between sets). Day 3 Rest Day 4 Repeat Day 1 Day 5 Repeat Day 2 Day 6 Rest And so on. You might be saying how can so little work and time spend doing body weight exercises give any results? This ain't no Suzanne Somers "Thigh Master" Routine! 1) Most people when lifting may do 3 to 5 sets of an exercise but they are usually only going hard on the last set. Because they have fatigued their muscles to some degree in the first 2 to 4 sets, their last set, while hard is not done as hard as it could be because there is already some fatigue in the muscles. 2) When I say "to failure" I don't mean until it starts to feel uncomfortable, I mean till your face practically falls through the concrete because you have absolutely nothing left in your arms on the last pushup! You have to be able to mentally push past the pain and fatigue that stops most people short of two or three more reps. Those two or three reps are where you get the results. 3) Taking full rest (at least 7 minutes) allows you to give 100% in the next set. If you only rest 1 minute after your pullups, you will find that you will not be able to get as many chinups and may be only able to get 80% of the effort you had in the first set. 4) Consistency is key, you need to be able to not miss workouts. Of course when you can do them in your home and the actual work time is only 4 minutes, there really are no excuses. Before starting this routine about 6 months ago, I would do as many as 10 sets of pushups a day (total about 450 pushups) 5 sets of pullups (60 reps) 4 sets of dips (100 reps) At that time, I could max out at about 70 continuous pushups, 15 continuous pullups and 35 dips. I now can max at 82 continuous pushups, 16 pullups and 43 dips. I never did leg work because it always had a detrimental effect on my running but now that I am rowing, I think it will complement it more so am thinking about adding some kind of short leg routine on Day 3. Day 4 will then become a rest day and day 5 will be a repeat of Day 1 and so on. Sorry for rambling with the long post but I have gotten great results from this workout routine. Good Muscle definition and strength. Even though I have not Barbell Bench pressed in two years, I tested myself about a month ago and was able to put up 240lbs. once and do my bodyweight 14 times. Legal Disclaimer: Always consult your physician before begining any new exercise program. Side effects could include but are not limited to: Increased Muscle definition, increased confidence and well being.

[old] kwadams · Post by **[old] kwadams** » January 27th, 2006, 1:17 pm

RowtheRockies-- Out of curiosity, do you perform the sets in a slow, controlled method, i.e., Super Slow protocol, or are you going regular speed? I've done SS before and found it very effective, but frankly I missed "the pump" you get from doing the reps at normal speed. I'm thinking it's time to shift things up a bit in my workout so I'm always interested in other ideas. Maybe our friend, Yoda, will jump in here... Thanks, Kevin

[old] RowtheRockies · Post by **[old] RowtheRockies** » January 27th, 2006, 1:26 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(kwadams @ Jan 27 2006, 11:17 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>RowtheRockies-- Out of curiosity, do you perform the sets in a slow, controlled method, i.e., Super Slow protocol, or are you going regular speed? I've done SS before and found it very effective, but frankly I missed "the pump" you get from doing the reps at normal speed. I'm thinking it's time to shift things up a bit in my workout so I'm always interested in other ideas. Maybe our friend, Yoda, will jump in here... Thanks, Kevin </td></tr></table> Kevin, actually it is the opposite. I do them very fast, almost explosively, at least on the pushups and bench dumbell presses.

[old] water-ratt47 · Post by **[old] water-ratt47** » January 27th, 2006, 3:32 pm

Rob & Kevin, i'm pretty new to the forum, but would suggest putting alot of variation into your non-rowing workouts. i just finished 6 weeks of superslow and as much as i love it (and the pain) it was too long. Push-ups and pull ups are great just add variety in grips/speed /reps etc... wanna really hurt? give cross fit a try www.crossfit.com i did the tabata workout yesterday after rowing and can barely move today. ratt

[old] Yoda1 · Post by **[old] Yoda1** » January 27th, 2006, 3:54 pm

Kevin, Ratt, and Rob, AAAaaarrrrrggggggg!!!!!!! Yoda

[old] kwadams · Post by **[old] kwadams** » January 27th, 2006, 5:26 pm

Come on Yoda, don't leave me hanging like that! What do you have to say? BTW, how are those bionic shoulders doing? Are you still using the Total Gym (or whichever one it was)? I think I need to do a few weeks of SS again just to make you happy... Kevin

[old] Yoda1 · Post by **[old] Yoda1** » January 27th, 2006, 5:56 pm

I feel like I'm confessing all of my beliefs this week. Between this thread and that other one regarding specific training I'm fatiguing my grey matter. You know that I do believe that SS is the best protocol, but I also know that the pump from other protocols can be sorely missed. Much like lifting the heavy iron. I miss that also. I'm not sure I understood what Ratt meant by saying that SS took to long. SS is usually a very short but extremely intense workout. Maybe it just felt to long to him. What about that Ratt? I don't care for crossfit mainly because there are way too many people that try do to exercises the way they think they should be done and end up getting injured. I guess I'm from the old school that believes someone, that knows the exercises, should teach them, eyeball to eyeball, not over some damn electronic giggle machine. I put the total trainer in the shed so I had room to experiment with the bungie cord workout. It's a hoot. Especially, on the Swiss Ball. If you misjudge while doing a given exercise one can end up on their nose. One thing I didn't expect from the bungie cord workout is how much my core has been impacted. Since I do take my exercises to failure, my body, from hips to chest has been sore because the core is getting worked on almost every exercise. I think you all should try the one minute bodyweight routine. Just do squats, pushups, pullups or chinups, but take one minute for each rep. Those will put a smile on your face. If you only did 3 sets of each exercise it would only take 9 minutes to complete. There's my input. Yoda (the bionic one)

[old] kwadams · Post by **[old] kwadams** » January 27th, 2006, 7:09 pm

Thanks for the advice. I do recall you mentioning that guy you ran into while out on a hike or something...the "one minute rep man". I'm going to give it a shot next week and will let you know how bad the face plant was! Glad all is well (notice no yelling here either).

[old] RobertS · Post by **[old] RobertS** » January 28th, 2006, 9:40 am

Thanks for all the info guys, especially the detailed workout RowtheRockies I think that some of these exercises might be a bit much for me at the moment though as: 1. I'm not that fit yet. 2. It's been a long time (7 years) since I did weights and I’m concerned that I might injure myself with the explosive 'push to destruction' techniques. Especially as I used machines in the past not free weights, so I want to make sure that my technique is spot on. 3. I thought that less reps/more intense regimes build muscle more than the less intense high rep routines which 'tone' the muscle with less emphasis on growth? Though I'm sure these would be great workouts if I was a bit more advanced could you maybe suggest 5-10 upper body exercises that I could do with higher reps, but where I'm sure to be working opposite muscles equally (e.g. biceps, then triceps). Ideally I'm looking to work arms, chest, abs shoulders and back. I'm a real novice here so just looking for a simple and effective set from which to build on rather than a fully hardcore routine. Also any advice on correct technique for the exercises would be great. Just simple stuff like press ups and sit ups combined with some dumbbell work would be ideal. We don't have a pull-up bar at the gym, so chin-ups etc are out. Thanks again, Rob

[old] kwadams · Post by **[old] kwadams** » January 28th, 2006, 12:30 pm

Rob-- Search on this site for some helpful advice from Diesel and Yoda (Super Slow). I believe there is actually a dual thread right now on the benefits of weight lifting. It's really not that complicated and with a very few basic exercises you can get a great resistance workout. If you are concerned about proper technique (and you should be), perhaps you have access to a personal trainer at the gym. All you need is for someone to show you the correct form and then you can take it from there. There are also good books out there, but having someone to physically show you is probably the best. Again, it's not rocket science and Yoda's suggestion on doing basic body weight exercises is good advice. If you don't have a chin-up bar, just make one or they sell types that either hook onto a door frame or onto your ceiling/rafters in your house. Try to do a push-up, chin-up, and body weight squat so that it takes one full minute to do just one rep--very slow, controlled movement. One set of one rep for one minute to total failure. I guarantee you will get a great, complete workout and it will compliment your rowing cycle. Good luck, Kevin

[old] RobertS · Post by **[old] RobertS** » January 28th, 2006, 1:06 pm

Thanks Kevin and Yoda. I will try the superslow method this evening... ..and take a look at that other thread you mentioned. Cheers again, Rob

[old] ljwagner · Post by **[old] ljwagner** » January 29th, 2006, 2:54 pm

You should do a CV warmup of 10 minutes minimum before a weight workout. Add in 5 minutes or so CV afterwards. Gets your heart prepped for the work load. Also checkout www.billpearl.com . His book, "Getting Stronger" has a lot of exercises, many of which are also listed with graphics on the website, along with many routines. For pullups, if you can't do one to start, try starting from the top. Jump up or step up, and from the top position, slowly ease down. Now and then try to do one normally. Using this technique, my nephew went from none to be able to do 13 full pullups in about 8 months. From what I've read in exercise physiology, too slow of a rep does not really help that much. For one, it does not mimic a real life activity. And too fast results in a the mid area of the muscle getting no work because momentum moves the weight more. Each flex rep should be 2-3 seconds, lowering can be a bit slower. Breath, no holding your breath. You should be able to double your current strength in many areas in about a year without any injury risk. Pearl recommends increments of only 5% every 2-3 weeks. That may not sound like much but your goal is improvement, not injury, stiffness or soreness. Starting with lighter weights for a month will also let your joints get accustomed to the weight training, and your connective tissue will get stronger so you can lift more later. For better definition, you'll need to reduce body fat. That will be your cardio work and improved diet. What are your big calorie sin foods ?

[old] RobertS · Post by **[old] RobertS** » January 30th, 2006, 7:40 am

Thanks LJ, I tried the slow method on Fri, but am not really up to it yet + as you say I’m not 100% convinced that it’s the best way for me to train. If I do more reps I can hold my form and ensure that each rep is fluid and the same pace through out. With the super slow I begin to lose it and am sure that some parts of the muscle would get more work than others, I’m sure this technique works wonders for some, but I prefer doing the slow/in control 2-4 second reps right now and think that for my current strength that will work best. As for warming up, I do my exercises (only press-ups and sit-ups right now – only started on Fri) after a 10K row and 30 minutes on the elliptical trainer - I’m more than warmed up! Fairly knackered actually  Obviously this does mean that I can’t do as many reps etc (I push pretty hard on the 10K) but wouldn’t want to limit my 10k times by doing the resistance work first, unless you think that it’s not very beneficial to be doing it after? Maybe some alternation between the two? Diet wise I have breakfast (scrambled eggs on toast or toast and peanut butter), no lunch, but eating fruit through out the day (5 portions, mostly bananas - it's free at work!). Sensible dinner at 6.30 then hit the gym at 7.30-8ish. I drink a lot of water throughout the day. I do feel as though I’m losing weight and can certainly feel a big difference in my muscles firming up after only 3 weeks so generally I’m pretty pleased. Don’t know if I’ll be incorporating pull-ups into my routine as we don’t have a bar at the gym and I don’t really want to carry my workout home – though thanks for the advice here, it makes a lot of sense. On a slightly different note I tried some strapless rowing the other day, which wasn’t as hard as I’d expected, except that I found finishing the stroke with a small lean back very difficult – I did the final 5k strapped, so I could keep my technique closer to the diagrams here regarding the final lean. Is this something balance wise you just get used to until you can manage to transfer the weight just right so that the ‘lean’ is possible or does strapless require a slightly different style for the finish (I mean hands to stomach, not recovery). Generally I think I’ll row strapped, unless strapless is better for technique. Will check out www.billpearl.com at lunch… at work right now, cheers for the link. Thanks very much for all the help, Rob

[old] water-ratt47 · Post by **[old] water-ratt47** » January 30th, 2006, 3:00 pm

[ >>>I'm not sure I understood what Ratt meant by saying that SS took to long. SS is usually a very short but extremely intense workout. Maybe it just felt to long to him. What about that Ratt? <<< Sorry what i meant was that six weeks is too long a time to do one type of exercise without changing up the routine. So now i've gone to the other extreme: crossfit does different stuff everyday. >>>>>I put the total trainer in the shed so I had room to experiment with the bungie cord workout. <<<< Total trainers are good pieces of equipment, but you often need dozens of reps unles you spring for the delux model you can put weights on. I got mine for $50 from a guy at work that never used it. One big benefit of SS is that because your using lighter weight the chances of injury are alot less. At 47 i've had my share of injuries that result in weeks off I HATE IT!!! Lets not lose sight of the fact that everyone is different: has different goals, different motivation and therefor should approach life and rowing differently. The other day at the pool there was a swimmer with HORRIBLE stroke mechanics, the lifeguard tried to explain how he could swim more efficiently to which he repiled "Im trying to burn calories not be efficient". i row because it's a superior exercise, i used to have a single & rowed everyday, that ended with a knee injury. now i hop on the erg a couple times a week for variety, i also windsurf, swim, rollerblade crossfit and i'm alot stronger and healthier than when i did a single activity. Have fun, row strong and live long! ratt