10mps: Race Pace, Stroking Power, And Ratio

[[old] ranger]

Thanks for Paul Smith again for this one.<br /><br />With Paul Smith (and Mike Caviston?), I now believe that, when everything else is in place and proper training has been completed, being at 10MPS at race pace is indeed divinely relaxing and efficient. Despite the pace, the beat of your stroke at 10MPS is very nearly 2-to-1, which leaves plenty of time to set up each stroke and get maximal length, leverage, and timing. This is especially pleasing to experience at race pace. I can't wait to experience it in an actual race. I used to race in a mad huff, technique be damned!<br /><br />I can't believe it, really, but I have now trained myself to pull at 13 SPI with just a standard pull. At 10MPS, that's 1:34 @ 32 spm, what I think is the limits of my potential to blow air for 2K (given my size and age). I am sure that it will take me some time to get to this for 2K, but I am not sure that it isn't entirely possible, if I stay in ratio and maximize my efficiency. I now have the needed stroking power.<br /><br />The great trick in getting to this point (i.e., 10MPS at race pace) is learning to pull hard enough and efficiently enough to stay in ratio all of the way to race pace (i.e., the limits of our aerobic capacity, endurance, etc.). At some much too early point, most of us start to trade rate for pace, fall out of ratio, and therefore lose the efficiency, rhythm, and relaxation needed to maximize our potential. Many of us race at 36 spm but pulling only 8-10 SPI (or whatever).<br /><br />I suppose the question I would like to ask is this: Do training plans address this difficulty with sufficient vigor and care? At the moment, I am not sure. For foundational training, the Concept2 Interactive Plan would have me pull a lot at 11.5 SPI and 20-22 spm, the Wolverine Plan at 12.5 SPI at 16-26 spm, usually 10-20K.<br /><br />My take on this has been that I needed to pull a similar distance at similar rates, but at 14-15 SPI and abnormally low drag. This is what I have been doing in my free "rowing with breaks." After rowing a lot at 14-15 SPI and low drag, if you put the drag back up, 13 SPI comes pretty easily, easy enough to then work on getting your endurance up to haul that hard in a relaxing ratio at 10MPS for 2K.<br /><br />Verdict is still out on this, but I think what I have been doing has worked. <br /><br />We'll see.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

10MPS at 36 spm is 17 SPI, 1:23 pace!<br /><br />ranger

[[old] jjpisano]

Ranger:<br /><br />I would really like to see you show up at a competition and pull a 6:16 at the tender age of 54 or 55. That would be amazing and inspirational.<br /><br />After all that training, just show up and do it. You would silence your critics.<br /><br />Do you have any plans to compete in any of this year's indoor rowing races?<br /><br />Jim Pisano<br /><br />

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you have any plans to compete in any of this year's indoor rowing races? </td></tr></table><br /><br />Yes, as many as I can.<br /><br />Jan 21 Indianapolis<br />Jan 29 Cincinnati<br />Feb 5 Toronto<br />Feb 11 Baltimore<br />Feb 18 Chicago<br />Feb 25 Boston<br /><br />I am not going to pull 6:16 this year. But I am going to be learning a lot about how to compete with a powerful OTW stroke, rowing in ratio, at a low rate. I suspect I will continue to improve with this stroke for a least a year or two.<br /><br />ranger<br />

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You would silence your critics. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Critics? I didn't know I had any. What is there to be critical about in my rowing? I have been doing great.<br /><br /> <br /><br />Critics are just hangers on and nitpickers, anyway. They can never be satisfied. Nothing can ever silence them entirely. Bitching and moaning is their specialty! I should know. Professionally, more and more as time has gone on, I have given up being a linguist and have become a literary critic!<br /><br /> <br /><br />ranger

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 24 2005, 03:22 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 24 2005, 03:22 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Thanks for Paul Smith again for this one ...<br /><br />I can't believe it, really, but I have now trained myself to pull at ... 32 spm, what I think is the limits of my potential. </td></tr></table><br /><!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 24 2005, 06:40 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 24 2005, 06:40 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I am not going to pull 6:16 this year. [right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />Now the verdict is in.....

[[old] H_2O]

I had to work on my stroke power since it was wretchedly weak for a heavyweight.<br />I got to the point that I can do SPI 12.5 for 45 mins (at spms 19-21).<br />I can do SPI 13 for 7 mins at spm 23-25.<br /><br />If I now go for a very fast pull (over 1K - 2K) I am always much happier trading rate for pace. Ie. 1:35 at spm 33 feels the same as 1:37 at spm 30.<br />I believe the reason is twofold:<br />At higher spm you breathe more often, more air ventilated through the lungs.<br />Also you will pull not as hard and so engage fewer fast twitch fibers which are the big lactate producers.<br /><br />Since Ranger is a lightweight it is easier for him to swing back and forth so he should be able to maintain a higher stroke rate. I bet Ranger can maintain<br />spm 34 for a 2K. With that my bet is on 6:20 for him. I think that is a reasonable goal to shoot for.<br />

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I am always much happier trading rate for pace. Ie. 1:35 at spm 33 feels the same as 1:37 at spm 30.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Sure, that's how I used to be, too. This response depends on several things, I think, (1) your stroke mechanics, (2) your training, and (3) the limits of your potential. If you are using good mechanics, are rowing near the limits of your potential, and have trained long and hard at low rates and high stroking power over long distances for extended periods, I think you will do better in your racing by maintaining 10MPS, even at race pace. If (1) - (3) do not apply, you are in a different situation. You can do any number of things to try to get faster, including trading rate for pace.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] H_2O]

I do notice that my technique deteriorates at a fast pace.<br />Apparently I have not been training it long enough.<br />But there is not enough time left now (5 weeks) to the race and so I'll<br />do whatever it takes to get the fastest possible splits.<br /><br />I have to admit that I am disappointed that I cannot maintain the form<br />under pressure.

[[old] george nz]

I have the power, I dont have the aerobic base, and I did not have the ability to maintain good form over about 27/28spm.<br /><br />I am doing my rowing at s10mps and after a few weeks 27spm is reasonably comfortable, thos requires focus and relaxation. I would like to use the excuse that my size makes it more difficult for me to rate as high as a smaller/shorter person but that is not true, it is just a matter of perseverance and not trying to go to fast to soon and concentrating.<br /><br />I think that unlike Ranger who had the ability to rate high but did not have the power at that stage we are coming at this from different compass points. He now has the power and will match that to his stroking ability, I had the power and now need to develop the stroking ability.<br /><br />Maybe 6:16 is both our potentials <br /><br />George

[[old] John Rupp]

Maybe my potential is a 6:16 too.

[[old] John Rupp]

Yesterday I rowed 2:24 pace for awhile, at 26 spm with no breaks. Then I did it again the same way. for awhile with no breaks, with breaks in between.<br /><br />I just now figured that, since 2:24 pace is 117.2 watts, that I was using 4.51 joules of energy with each stroke, i.e. my spi was 4.51. <br /><br />Based on this I have determined that a 6:16 is possible, by keeping the same 4.51 spi and raising my stroke rate to 93 strokes per minute.<br /><br />Thanks to Paul Smith again for this one.

[[old] prairiefire]

Ranger -<br /><br />Sorry for the ignorance, but what is SPI?<br /><br />Prairiefire

[[old] george nz]

<!--QuoteBegin-prairiefire+Dec 25 2005, 03:14 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(prairiefire @ Dec 25 2005, 03:14 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ranger -<br /><br />Sorry for the ignorance, but what is SPI?<br /><br />Prairiefire <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Prairefire, it is your average watts for a piece divided by your stroke rate - so if you were rowing at 200watts at 20spm your SPI is 10.<br /><br />It is not much on its own, just another tool for measuring performance.

[[old] george nz]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Dec 25 2005, 01:55 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 25 2005, 01:55 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yesterday I rowed 2:24 pace for awhile, at 26 spm with no breaks.  Then I did it again the same way. for awhile with no breaks, with breaks in between.<br /><br />I just now figured that, since 2:24 pace is 117.2 watts, that I was using 4.51 joules of energy with each stroke, i.e. my spi was 4.51.  <br /><br />Based on this I have determined that a 6:16 is possible, by keeping the same 4.51 spi and raising my stroke rate to 93 strokes per minute.<br /><br />Thanks to Paul Smith again for this one.  <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />No John the only way you will ever get to 93 strokes a minute is if you use both hands - careful you dont go blind.