Brand New, Stroke Rates, Getting Faster, Etc..??

[[old] Rd2053]

Ok, I just got my rower last saturday and just finished my first week of training. I've been lurking and reading the various forums for tips etc.. All that has gotten me as a total newbie is mired in too many facts.<br />Just as a natural pull rate, my stroke rate seems to be about 28-32. I'm watching Sports Center and not really paying attention as I'm just trying to acclimate my body to the rower, but that's where the SR is. I started with 5 minutes and added 1 minute a day until today I did a 15 minute row with the plan being to take Christmas off and then start again on the 26th.<br />Now, to get faster, do I just pull harder? Set the damper above 3, where it is now? Up my stroke rate? Intervals? All of the above?<br />My short term goals are to work up to 10,000 meters and/or 30 minutes of rowing several times a week and to get my times down to the 50%tile mark as I get into shape and lose weight. I've been doing quite a bit of weight training the last several years but my cardio has been sporadic and I need to lose some fat.<br />Am I getting to concerned with details that will work themselves out just by doing?? Thanks and Happy Holidays to all. Bob.

[[old] tomhz]

<!--QuoteBegin-Rd2053+Dec 24 2005, 03:51 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Rd2053 @ Dec 24 2005, 03:51 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ok, I just got my rower last saturday and just finished my first week of training. I've been lurking and reading the various forums for tips etc.. All that has gotten me as a total newbie is mired in too many facts.<br />Just as a natural pull rate, my stroke rate seems to be about 28-32. I'm watching Sports Center and not really paying attention as I'm just trying to acclimate my body to the rower, but that's where the SR is. I started with 5 minutes and added 1 minute a day until today I did a 15 minute row with the plan being to take Christmas off and then start again on the 26th.<br />Now, to get faster, do I just pull harder? Set the damper above 3, where it is now? Up my stroke rate? Intervals? All of the above?<br />My short term goals are to work up to 10,000 meters and/or 30 minutes of rowing several times a week and to get my times down to the 50%tile mark as I get into shape and lose weight. I've been doing quite a bit of weight training the last several years but my cardio has been sporadic and I need to lose some fat.<br />Am I getting to concerned with details that will work themselves out  just by doing?? Thanks and Happy Holidays to all. Bob. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Hi Bob,<br /><br />Have you been online on Rowpro recently? I thinks I chatted with you and we did a common session. <br /><br />I was wondering: what is your pace at SR 28-32? How long are your sessions? <br /><br />Tom<br />

[[old] jamesg]

RD, first step is to get your technique sorted out. So forget distractions like TV and watch your stroke instead. Suggest you target pulls of 30-60', around 2W/kg, rating 18-22, making sure every single stroke counts, i.e is long and hard. Stiffer if you like, HR allowing, but no shorter. Length is the key, both of single strokes and of workouts - as long as possible. Have a look at Xeno Müller's videos, it's a privilege to watch an Olympic Gold sculler in action. Observe his sequence, technique and ratio. Do the same and sweat plenty.

[[old] Rd2053]

<!--QuoteBegin-tomhz+Dec 24 2005, 06:18 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(tomhz @ Dec 24 2005, 06:18 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Rd2053+Dec 24 2005, 03:51 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Rd2053 @ Dec 24 2005, 03:51 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ok, I just got my rower last saturday and just finished my first week of training. I've been lurking and reading the various forums for tips etc.. All that has gotten me as a total newbie is mired in too many facts.<br />Just as a natural pull rate, my stroke rate seems to be about 28-32. I'm watching Sports Center and not really paying attention as I'm just trying to acclimate my body to the rower, but that's where the SR is. I started with 5 minutes and added 1 minute a day until today I did a 15 minute row with the plan being to take Christmas off and then start again on the 26th.<br />Now, to get faster, do I just pull harder? Set the damper above 3, where it is now? Up my stroke rate? Intervals? All of the above?<br />My short term goals are to work up to 10,000 meters and/or 30 minutes of rowing several times a week and to get my times down to the 50%tile mark as I get into shape and lose weight. I've been doing quite a bit of weight training the last several years but my cardio has been sporadic and I need to lose some fat.<br />Am I getting to concerned with details that will work themselves out  just by doing?? Thanks and Happy Holidays to all. Bob. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Hi Bob,<br /><br />Have you been online on Rowpro recently? I thinks I chatted with you and we did a common session. <br /><br />I was wondering: what is your pace at SR 28-32? How long are your sessions? <br /><br />Tom <br /> </td></tr></table><br />

[[old] raymond botha]

Hi Rd'<br /><br />Know how you feel ! I went straight into 60min and HM's at a fairly light DF (under 100) . <br /><br />What I have found out is to view your workout through statistical analysis rather than persieved effort . I thought I was doing great as long as i was suffering. I do believe you will get better by just "trying" but will find you need a more intelligent approach once you compare yourself with the times other peolpe are submitting. This was my big wake up call. It definitely takes a structured approach to better your performance .<br /><br />I found a big improvement when I started using the Pete Plan. It was fairly easy to get going with once I had established a base 2K time. I also bought Rowpro. Its easier for me to compare my training session using a computer. <br /><br />This planned training included intervals which I had shyed away from. They're tough ... But once my body had got used to the stength and HR demands I started enjoying my rowing more . I also have noticed how more consistent my SR is regardless of speed (generally speaking), and your confidence will grow accordingly, as well as your feel for maintaining specific pace's. Its an invaluble skill. Basically you feel more like the coach than the athlete using your own body.<br /><br />Unfortunately rowing is all about your 2K pace so you need to build power over distance. <br /><br />I row @ home alone and find this easier for me to focus whilst training ,while using Rowpro for online racing is really exciting and helps push you more than anything. <br /><br />My plan is to keep things simple , after all we're doing this for ourselves . I remember reading some good advice in a cycling book "Enjoy the training, suffering comes later and is optional".<br /><br />In summary :<br />1. Train consistently.<br />2. Use a plan (Wolverine or Pete plan)<br />3. As you feel up to it set some times and then rate them on the C2 website.<br />4. You now have a marker , concentrate on gradual improvement.<br />5. Start analyysing you stroke and technique.<br /><br />I find that your nervous system developement to be the most critical to gaining "control" of your stroke. IOW the more you row the more feel and control you will have over what the body is doing. Stress amplifies this. The stronger the nervous system the more stress you can handle whilst maintaining control and technique. Again I feel experience counts more in the begginig than searching for perfect techique that the body is incapable of executing at that stage.<br /><br />I am no expert , only been going since April this year, 1.2 milion meters and can only now break the 7 min 2K barrier.<br /><br />Good luck friend , hope to see you around <br /><br />Regards <br />Ray

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-raymond botha+Dec 26 2005, 06:58 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(raymond botha @ Dec 26 2005, 06:58 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I find that your nervous system development to be the most critical to gaining "control" of your stroke. [right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />Agreed. The nerves control the muscles, and everything else.<br />

[[old] Citroen]

<!--QuoteBegin-Rd2053+Dec 24 2005, 03:51 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Rd2053 @ Dec 24 2005, 03:51 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Now, to get faster, do I just pull harder? Set the damper above 3, where it is now? Up my stroke rate? Intervals? All of the above? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Leave the damper alone - three (which is drag factor ~110) is a good setting. <br /><br />Drop the stroke rate to 20SSPM. Set the machine for 20mins counting down Watch the clock, pull a stroke at 20:0<b>0</b>, 19:5<b>7</b>, 19:5<b>4</b>, 19:5<b>1</b>, ..., 0:0<b>3</b>, stop.<br /><br />Pull harder, you've not said what pace (or watts) you're rowing at.<br />Try rowing S10MPS (strapless 10 metres per stroke). Set the machine for 5000m (which should take about 20mins), pull at stroke at 50<b>00</b>, 49<b>90</b>, 49<b>80</b>, 49<b>70</b>, ..., <b>10</b>, stop.<br /><br />Keep going with adding a minute a day - that gets you to 30' sessions by, less than, half way through January.<br /><br />Look at the Pete Plan, the Wolverine Plan and the C2 interactive programs. Chose a plan that you can stick at. (I've been doing and enjoying doing Pete's Plan.)<br /><br /><a href='http://www.concept2.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5409' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... 409</a><br /><a href='http://www.concept2.co.uk/training/interactive.php' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.co.uk/training/inte ... php</a><br /><a href='http://www.concept2.com/forums/wolverine_plan.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.com/forums/wolverin ... htm</a><br /><br />

[[old] Rd2053]

<!--QuoteBegin-Rd2053+Dec 24 2005, 11:51 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Rd2053 @ Dec 24 2005, 11:51 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ok, I just got my rower last saturday and just finished my first week of training. I've been lurking and reading the various forums for tips etc.. All that has gotten me as a total newbie is mired in too many facts.<br />Just as a natural pull rate, my stroke rate seems to be about 28-32. I'm watching Sports Center and not really paying attention as I'm just trying to acclimate my body to the rower, but that's where the SR is. I started with 5 minutes and added 1 minute a day until today I did a 15 minute row with the plan being to take Christmas off and then start again on the 26th.<br />Now, to get faster, do I just pull harder? Set the damper above 3, where it is now? Up my stroke rate? Intervals? All of the above?<br />My short term goals are to work up to 10,000 meters and/or 30 minutes of rowing several times a week and to get my times down to the 50%tile mark as I get into shape and lose weight. I've been doing quite a bit of weight training the last several years but my cardio has been sporadic and I need to lose some fat.<br />Am I getting to concerned with details that will work themselves out  just by doing?? Thanks and Happy Holidays to all. Bob. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /> <br />Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply. I have a lot to learn but know that consistency is the key. I have a HR monitor attachment coming and intend to incorporate that into my training as well. I bought the Oarsome 4some dvd and might go with rowpro in the future as well. We've already had some below zero, icy days, so staying in for cardio is a treat. Having so many options can only help keep it fresh. Thanks again and Happy Holidays and Happy New Year to you. Bob.

[[old] John Rupp]

1) Do the opposite of everything Citroen just said and you should do very well;<br /><br />2) Avoid being precise about anything;<br /><br />3) Keep an open mind.

[[old] Citroen]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Dec 26 2005, 10:44 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 26 2005, 10:44 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1)  Do the opposite of everything Citroen just said and you should do very well;<br /><br />2)  Avoid being precise about anything;<br /><br />3)  Keep an open mind.  <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br /><span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><b>TROLL</b></span></span>

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-Citroen+Dec 26 2005, 01:44 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Citroen @ Dec 26 2005, 01:44 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->this is a crazy interface, I've no idea why C2 have designed their website like that. It's not the way I would have done it.[right] </td></tr></table><br />Citroen,<br /><br />It is strange that people having an open mind is so offensive to you.<br /><br />You must be a joy to be around in your personal life. <br /><br />

[[old] mpukita]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Dec 26 2005, 12:22 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 26 2005, 12:22 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Agreed.  The nerves control the muscles, and everything else. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />A marvelous intuitive sense of the obvious.

[[old] cbrock]

[quote=Citroen,Dec 27 2005, 05:36 AM]<br />[quote=Rd2053,Dec 24 2005, 03:51 PM]Now, to get faster, do I just pull harder? Set the damper above 3, where it is now? Up my stroke rate? Intervals? All of the above? <br />[/quote]<br /><br />Leave the damper alone - three (which is drag factor ~110) is a good setting. <br /><br />Try rowing S10MPS (strapless 10 metres per stroke). Set the machine for 5000m (which should take about 20mins), pull at stroke at 50<b>00</b>, 49<b>90</b>, 49<b>80</b>, 49<b>70</b>, ..., <b>10</b>, stop.<br /><br />Citroen,<br />I certainly am no expert but Isn't 2.00 splits for 5000m a huge ask for anybody particularly someone new to rowing.<br /><br />Or have I misunderstood what you were suggesting.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Chris

[[old] jamesg]

CB<br />10 mps @ 20 is 200m/min or 2:30/500, 100W and not much use to anyone, except those who pull 5 mps at 32. For such cases (and RD could be one) I think it's a useful tool for suggesting what rowing is all about - shifting the boat and the further the better. <br /><br />At higher ratings 10mps gets much more energetic as you say, for example at 25 it's 2:00 and at 27 1:51 (on the erg the cube law applies to pace calculations). <br /><br />Other plans seem to use a constant work per stroke criterion, so that our power output is linear with rating, and the rating spread to use is wider (18 to 26). If we choose a high enough W/stroke index, we have to pull hard and long whatever the rating, which can't be a bad idea. <br /><br />Fwiw, I pull at 20-21, 2:00 - 2:05 (170-200W), 2W/kg and 9W/stroke, for 20-40' a time, and it seems to keep me fit. This works out at 11-12mps. I'm 188cm x 88kg x 65y. In my 2k racing days, I used 10W/stroke at up to 27 which tho' slow, was enough to get me a few gongs.<br /><br />I think the W/kg and the work per stroke indices are the best possible, if we want to understand what we're actually doing. After all the machine is called an ergometer and only work can move the boat.

[[old] Citroen]

<!--QuoteBegin-cbrock+Dec 27 2005, 05:10 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(cbrock @ Dec 27 2005, 05:10 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Citroen+Dec 27 2005, 05:36 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Citroen @ Dec 27 2005, 05:36 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br /><!--QuoteBegin-Rd2053+Dec 24 2005, 03:51 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Rd2053 @ Dec 24 2005, 03:51 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Now, to get faster, do I just pull harder? Set the damper above 3, where it is now? Up my stroke rate? Intervals? All of the above? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Leave the damper alone - three (which is drag factor ~110) is a good setting. <br /><br />Try rowing S10MPS (strapless 10 metres per stroke). Set the machine for 5000m (which should take about 20mins), pull at stroke at 50<b>00</b>, 49<b>90</b>, 49<b>80</b>, 49<b>70</b>, ..., <b>10</b>, stop.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Dougie,<br />I certainly am no expert but Isn't 2.00 splits for 5000m a huge ask for anybody particularly someone new to rowing.<br /><br />Or have I misunderstood what you were suggesting.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Chris <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Sorry you are right. A newbie should take about 25mins for 5K. But, S10MPS is an excellent way to get good technique.