Buffering Agents

[old] prairiefire · Post by **[old] prairiefire** » December 4th, 2005, 4:53 pm

Has anyone ever used any buffering agents during a 2K? When I was on the USOC medical staff, I know that several athletes who engaged in high intensity events resulting in anaerobic metabolism utilized buffering agents to prolong their capacity to exercise at what I considered supranormal anerobic states. From an ethical point of view this strikes me as antithetical to being an athlete, BUT there are natural, non prescription means of improving acid buffering for short term events - which should translate into better times. Just curious, once again. Xeno - are you aware of anyone doing this when you were actively competing? Prairiefire

[old] H_2O · Post by **[old] H_2O** » December 4th, 2005, 8:25 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(prairiefire @ Dec 4 2005, 03:53 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Has anyone ever used any buffering agents during a 2K? </td></tr></table> I have never used any but it would make an interesting experiment. But as far as I know you have to ingest HUGE quantities of sodium bicarbonate and I don't think this is healthy. That brings me to another question: what does lactic acid buildup feel like? How would failure due to lactic acid buildup occur if you could push yourself that far? Generally on the topic of doping agents here is my personal opinion: These are extremely widespread. You have no chance at the top unless you are juiced (EPO, steroids,...). When a case is detected some athletes in the sport get on camera to profess moral outrage while off camera they complain about how their sex life has deteriorated due to the side effects of whatever it is they are taking. I have been told by a cyclist whom I used to ride with that he knows even people as slow as me who take EPO (despite being told by their doctors that their hematocrit is life threathening). I am very slow indeed on a bike --- I am not a competitive cyclist at all. I have heard some stories of young and totally mediocre swimmers taking pills. Surely you have noticed how many athletes have "asthma". If you are doing some speedork you might want to inhale something. I would say the majority of athletes is on something and are extremely knowledgeable about masking agents or have the benefit of medical advice in this regard. I am not talking about age group rowers here.

[old] H_2O · Post by **[old] H_2O** » December 4th, 2005, 9:38 pm

I found this on the net: <a href='http://www.pureendurance.net/lactic_acid' target='_blank'>http://www.pureendurance.net/lactic_acid</a> "Research indicates that sodium bicarbonate ingestion can improve your lactate threshold. Richard Kreider (University of Memphis) conducted a six day trial with a Sodium bicarbonate supplement where 4 grams/day were consumed. At the end of this period VO2max was improved by 9%, LT raised by 12% and blood-haemoglobin levels by 5%." This is hard to believe. The improvements are simply astronomical.

[old] george nz · Post by **[old] george nz** » December 4th, 2005, 10:12 pm

As I have asked on H 20 poll - what is the point. I am sure there are all sorts of legal and illegal substances you can take but why would you. If you can give a satisfactory answer to that then the discussion can commence other wise there is no point. George ps 'there is no such thing as a free lunch', if you mess with you metabolism in one way you will pay in another.

[old] H_2O · Post by **[old] H_2O** » December 4th, 2005, 10:24 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(george nz @ Dec 4 2005, 09:12 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>What is the point. I am sure there are all sorts of legal and illegal substances you can take but why would you. George </td></tr></table> 4g of baking powder is so little some other rower could get that by eating lots of cookies, cake or bread. In my present shape I can hope to get 400 Watts over the 2K distance (maybe). This is a 6:24 row. If I can take my power output up 10% (VO2max +9%, AT +12%) then I am at 440, that's probably a 6:08 row. The difference is enormous, the substance is legal and the quantity is minimal. Why would it be any different than eating a healthier diet (my eating habits are awful)? I find this article hard to believe ---- but what if it is true? BTW i am already taking the following supplements: Vitamins C,E Selenium Zink Alpha lipoic acid Coenzyme Q10 (all antioxidants) Glutamin ( to speed recovery from hard workouts) Protein Powder Amino acids Since all these keep me healthy and arrest my aging process (antioxidants) I gain an unfair advantage over other age group rowers who do not take antioxidants. In asmuch as these substances keep me younger and healthier they allow me to work out harder which is the biggest advantage. By comparison to the above baking powder is a rather pedestrian compound. What's the difference?

[old] Roland Baltutis · Post by **[old] Roland Baltutis** » December 4th, 2005, 11:36 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(prairiefire @ Dec 4 2005, 03:53 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Has anyone ever used any buffering agents during a 2K? When I was on the USOC medical staff, I know that several athletes who engaged in high intensity events resulting in anaerobic metabolism utilized buffering agents to prolong their capacity to exercise at what I considered supranormal anerobic states. From an ethical point of view this strikes me as antithetical to being an athlete, BUT there are natural, non prescription means of improving acid buffering for short term events - which should translate into better times. Just curious, once again. Xeno - are you aware of anyone doing this when you were actively competing? Prairiefire </td></tr></table> Xeno recently wrote an article in Rowing Magozine about his experiences with legal buffering agents. If need be I can summarize his article later. However, in Australia tests on several buffering agents have been conducted with promising results. The Australian Institute of Sport rates sodium bicarbonate as a top-tier group A supplement. They tested 5 elite male rowers asking them to row at max effort for 6 minutes on a C2 ergometer. Their efforts were measured without supplementation and then after a dose of 300 mg of sodium bicarbonate per Kg of body mass. In summary the average distance rowed in 6 minutes increased from 1,813m to 1,861m. That's a huge 48 meter difference improvement with sodium bicarbs. They recommend to take the dose divided by 5 staggered doses each 30 minutes from 3 hours before the event and claim it's legal and poses no health risks. Another legal product used in Australia by an increasing number of sportspeople is oxyshot (refer www.oxyshot.com.au) which is basically water with an ultra high concentration of oxygen in it and supposed to act like EPO. Then there is the latest form of Creatine called Creatine Ethyll Esther which can be absorbed quicker and in higher quantity, relative to the amount consumed, than other forms of creatine. There's heaps of evidence out there that as a buffering agent it really works. There have also been articles in "Peak Performance" magazine about improved performances from athletes that have never had asthma, but use bronchodilators (beta-agonists) that are meant for asthmatics only. It has also been proven that sodium citrate has an ergogenic effect on sprint cyclists and runners. The list goes on. Where do you want me to stop? Roland Baltutis

[old] george nz · Post by **[old] george nz** » December 4th, 2005, 11:48 pm

Mate you can take anything you want sure doesn't worry me. I actually think that the amount of supplements people take they may as well just piss their money down the drain .... we get older, that is a fact of life - we train harder and we get quicker or slow down the decline. If you wanted to go into a race fueled on this stuff and win thats cool as long as you are happy. A question tho on this stuff and the way it supposedly delays lactic meltdown onset - your musculature can only handle so much stress at which point it cant metabolise the lactate produced and you slow down, if you delay that point artificially is there not a danger that you will over stress your physiology. People supposedly lift cars when high on adrenaline in an emergency, but dont be fooled into thinking they dont tear every muscle in their body doing it George

[old] Carl Henrik · Post by **[old] Carl Henrik** » December 5th, 2005, 6:04 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(H_2O @ Dec 5 2005, 01:38 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I found this on the net: <a href='http://www.pureendurance.net/lactic_acid' target='_blank'>http://www.pureendurance.net/lactic_acid</a> "Research indicates that sodium bicarbonate ingestion can improve your lactate threshold. Richard Kreider (University of Memphis) conducted a six day trial with a Sodium bicarbonate supplement where 4 grams/day were consumed. At the end of this period VO2max was improved by 9%, LT raised by 12% and blood-haemoglobin levels by 5%." This is hard to believe. The improvements are simply astronomical. </td></tr></table> The article does not mention the progress of the control group or placebo group, if there were any such, so there is no information on wether sodium bicarbonate works at all in that passage. This must be interpreted as meant to trick the reader. The articel also give examples on how to train your lactate tolerance. According to Mike Caviston there is no evidence for such training. Once again this article seems like you shouldn't believe anything it says.

[old] H_2O · Post by **[old] H_2O** » December 5th, 2005, 6:21 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Roland Baltutis @ Dec 4 2005, 10:36 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>........ The list goes on. Where do you want me to stop? Roland Baltutis </td></tr></table> Thanks, this information is very valuable. I am going to check into Creatine and phosphate loading as I do not eat red meat at all and have a very poor diet in general.

[old] H_2O · Post by **[old] H_2O** » December 5th, 2005, 6:45 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Carl Henrik @ Dec 5 2005, 05:04 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>........... The articel also give examples on how to train your lactate tolerance. According to Mike Caviston there is no evidence for such training. Once again this article seems like you shouldn't believe anything it says. </td></tr></table> Agreed, the claims are outrageous. But I have a general problem of too little Sodium intake and excessive sweating. So why not supplement with Sodium Phosphate killing two birds at one stroke? I am now checking out this: <a href='http://www.ironpower.biz/downloads/Bigg ... uscles.PDF' target='_blank'>http://www.ironpower.biz/downloads/Bigg ... PDF</a>

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