Force Curve

[old] lintonwilson · Post by **[old] lintonwilson** » November 23rd, 2005, 6:01 pm

Have been working out on the erg since mid August and have learned much from this forum. Thanks. At slower splits my force curve has a dip (moves a little laterally) on the way up to peak power. At faster splits i.e. 2k pace or better it is smooth and the left leaning haystack I understand we want. Almost all my erging is strapless. Any theories? Also, anyone want my meters? 590K and climbing.<br /><br />Thanks and Regards<br /><br /> <br />

[old] csabour · Post by **[old] csabour** » November 24th, 2005, 9:47 am

the only thing i can think of is that perhaps you have too much of a seperationg between the movement of your legs and your back... If you see any silken lauman clips, you see her on the water pushing off with her legs until they are completely down and then opening with the back. this is fine, but to my knowledge its for efficient if there was some overlap between leg drive and pulling from the back.<br /><br />don't open your stroke with the back, but dont let your legs go all the way down without beginning the back part.

[old] eannamac · Post by **[old] eannamac** » November 24th, 2005, 10:16 am

Agreed. Most people work best with some overlap between the three phases of the drive i.e. legs-back-arms. <br /><br />Not being vague but the stroke adopted will depend on your physique - I have big thighs and shoulders so most of my power comes from there, and my stroke has little movement from my back. Someone with a different musculature will have different power ratios between the different areas of the body so their stroke will differ slightly. What I am driving at, if you'll pardon the pun, is that find YOUR stroke, the best stroke for someone else might not be the best stroke for you.<br /><br />Also I try to make the drive increase in power throughout the drive so that the arms are adding to the momentum obtained by the legs and back, rather than just finishing the stroke. <br /><br />A technique might be to try row slowly, at say 20 spm trying to get the movement in one fluid motion - ignoring the distance and speed for the moment, and then increase the rate. If you can get a buddy to watch you from the side and let you know what you are doing strokewise it can be a big help.

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » November 27th, 2005, 1:05 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(lintonwilson @ Nov 23 2005, 03:01 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Have been working out on the erg since mid August and have learned much from this forum. Thanks. At slower splits my force curve has a dip (moves a little laterally) on the way up to peak power. At faster splits i.e. 2k pace or better it is smooth and the left leaning haystack I understand we want. Almost all my erging is strapless. Any theories? Also, anyone want my meters? 590K and climbing.<br /><br />Thanks and Regards <br /> </td></tr></table><br /> Hi<br />WE WANT YOU TO LOG FOR US!!!<br />So I cordially invite you to join us with IRON OARSMAN. Currently we are third in the world ranking. We are playing the numbers game against number one and number two of the ranking. They have an assortment of people who row and row and row and row. The only way to steam roll them is en masse.<br />Let us know!<br />XENO:)

[old] lintonwilson · Post by **[old] lintonwilson** » November 27th, 2005, 11:52 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Xeno @ Nov 27 2005, 12:05 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(lintonwilson @ Nov 23 2005, 03:01 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Have been working out on the erg since mid August and have learned much from this forum. Thanks. At slower splits my force curve has a dip (moves a little laterally) on the way up to peak power. At faster splits i.e. 2k pace or better it is smooth and the left leaning haystack I understand we want. Almost all my erging is strapless. Any theories? Also, anyone want my meters? 590K and climbing.<br /><br />Thanks and Regards <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Hi<br />WE WANT YOU TO LOG FOR US!!!<br />So I cordially invite you to join us with IRON OARSMAN. Currently we are third in the world ranking. We are playing the numbers game against number one and number two of the ranking. They have an assortment of people who row and row and row and row. The only way to steam roll them is en masse.<br />Let us know!<br />XENO:) <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Done! They’re yours<br />

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » November 27th, 2005, 9:20 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(lintonwilson @ Nov 27 2005, 08:52 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Xeno @ Nov 27 2005, 12:05 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(lintonwilson @ Nov 23 2005, 03:01 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Have been working out on the erg since mid August and have learned much from this forum. Thanks. At slower splits my force curve has a dip (moves a little laterally) on the way up to peak power. At faster splits i.e. 2k pace or better it is smooth and the left leaning haystack I understand we want. Almost all my erging is strapless. Any theories? Also, anyone want my meters? 590K and climbing.<br /><br />Thanks and Regards <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Hi<br />WE WANT YOU TO LOG FOR US!!!<br />So I cordially invite you to join us with IRON OARSMAN. Currently we are third in the world ranking. We are playing the numbers game against number one and number two of the ranking. They have an assortment of people who row and row and row and row. The only way to steam roll them is en masse.<br />Let us know!<br />XENO:) <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Done! They’re yours <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Beautiful!

[old] Yeischkob · Post by **[old] Yeischkob** » November 28th, 2005, 12:11 am

<br />I sometimes notice a "dip" in the force curve and was thinking about posting about it myself. <br /><br />Seems to me that when I keep my legs connected to the handle through a firm back, and get away from the footrests quickly, I get a smooth curve.<br /><br />When I'm not as good at applying power from the legs, or move more slowly out of the catch, I get jumpy lines or a dip on the way up to peak power.<br /><br />If that's right, it might explain why your force curve is better at higher efforts than lower. <br /><br />I think you should have made Xeno work harder for those 590,000m! <br />Sadly, I don't have nearly as many to give away.<br /><br />Cheers,<br />Nick

[old] grams · Post by **[old] grams** » November 28th, 2005, 12:52 am

Ouch, Xeno!! Lets keep it clean in the club rankings. <br /><br />The #1 group is mine-the Ancient Mariners. You are too young even to qualify for joining us. <br /><br />[Your quote]<br />"We (meaning Iron Oarsmen) are playing the numbers game against number one and number two of the ranking. They (meaning my club) have an assortment of people who row and row and row and row. The only way to steam roll them is en masse." [unquote] <br /><br />We have 44 members. You have 169 members. I guess that you are saying that the odds of 3:1 in your favor aren't good enough for you. I'm not even counting the age differential. I am wondering about your attitude for coaching kids.<br /><br />Wait till you are 60 or 70 or older. You may not think its so great to be steamrolled by masses of male macho ergers young enough to be your children. <br /><br />Us old fogeys can do endurance stuff, but most of us can't crank out the speed pieces without doing damage to our arthritic old joints or tendons or lungs or heart or whatever. And some of our members are truly super geezer-athletes. Like Ole Granny. Some members are getting over things like heart surgery, but still put in the meters.<br /><br />Our main advantage is that we are retired and so have more time to devote to erging each day; not that we are more macho than you guys. <br /><br />grams 63 years old and proud of it<br /><br />

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » November 28th, 2005, 12:52 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Yeischkob @ Nov 27 2005, 09:11 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I sometimes notice a "dip" in the force curve and was thinking about posting about it myself. <br /><br />Seems to me that when I keep my legs connected to the handle through a firm back, and get away from the footrests quickly, I get a smooth curve.<br /><br />When I'm not as good at applying power from the legs, or move more slowly out of the catch, I get jumpy lines or a dip on the way up to peak power.<br /><br />If that's right, it might explain why your force curve is better at higher efforts than lower. <br /><br />I think you should have made Xeno work harder for those 590,000m! <br />Sadly, I don't have nearly as many to give away.<br /><br />Cheers,<br />Nick <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Hi Nick!<br />Ok, we are looking for hands to pull to the top and beat university of new mexico and the other. How many do you have? Are you affiliated with someone? In any case, I look forward to any volunteers who are ready to pull together.<br />Xeno

[old] rspenger · Post by **[old] rspenger** » November 28th, 2005, 1:15 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(grams @ Nov 27 2005, 09:52 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Ouch, Xeno!! Lets keep it clean in the club rankings. <br /><br />The #1 group is mine-the Ancient Mariners. You are too young even to qualify for joining us. <br /><br />[Your quote]<br />"We (meaning Iron Oarsmen) are playing the numbers game against number one and number two of the ranking. They (meaning my club) have an assortment of people who row and row and row and row. The only way to steam roll them is en masse." [unquote] <br /><br />We have 44 members. You have 169 members. I guess that you are saying that the odds of 3:1 in your favor aren't good enough for you. I'm not even counting the age differential. I am wondering about your attitude for coaching kids.<br /><br />Wait till you are 60 or 70 or older. You may not think its so great to be steamrolled by masses of male macho ergers young enough to be your children. <br /><br />Us old fogeys can do endurance stuff, but most of us can't crank out the speed pieces without doing damage to our arthritic old joints or tendons or lungs or heart or whatever. And some of our members are truly super geezer-athletes. Like Ole Granny. Some members are getting over things like heart surgery, but still put in the meters.<br /><br />Our main advantage is that we are retired and so have more time to devote to erging each day; not that we are more macho than you guys. <br /><br />grams 63 years old and proud of it <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Do you call 63 old? I graduated from high school (June, '41) before you were born. I can testify that Xeno is not just looking for young macho rowers. He invited me to join, but I am sticking with the best group on the Forum, Row Hearty. You have to have had heart surgery to join - or, at least, be expecting to have it. We have only five members, but we have been moving up in the meters per member ranks, which is where it really counts. I invite your heart surgery survivors to jump ship and join us.<br /><br />Bob S.

[old] grams · Post by **[old] grams** » November 28th, 2005, 1:01 pm

My aim in my previous email was to remind folks that ultimately erging is not about the numbers-its about the people. My goal is to get more 'older' ladies and gentlemen familiar with the benefits of full- body non-weight bearing exercise. <br /><br />Xeno, your dvds arrived this week and I have been using them to improve my stroke and workouts. Your coaching is excellent. I was surprised by your 'steamroll' comment. Not good marketing, I think. <br /><br />There must be many C2 clubs online with special affilliations such as Row Hearty and Ancient Mariners. I didn't know about Row Hearty. I will be spending some time online finding out more about the various clubs. I invite Xeno to do the same.<br /><br />grams

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