Knee Pain

[[old] Rowrunner]

I bought a Concept 2 in March and now it´s the second time my left knee starts to hurt. It hurts below the knee cap, most when I go up- and downstairs. <br /><br />I mix rowing with running and I´m pretty sure that the injury is caused by the rowing. I have done most of my rowing strapless and rather easy. Has anyone had a similar injury? What can have caused it? Any suggestion on the best way to use the erg without using the legs?

[[old] michaelb]

I have this theory, completely unsupported by any evidence, that sometimes rowing exposes underlying repetitive strain injuries. So something else may be causing your knee problem, but rowing is aggravating it.<br /><br />Obviously, you should make sure your rowing technique is sound. But just out of the chance that I am right, I would also look at your workplace and/or other things you are doing. Do you sit at a desk? Is that orthopedically a sound environment? Are your legs hanging there unsupported all day under desk?<br /><br />I should note that my similar sounding occasional knee pain was above the knee, so may be completely unrelated to your condition. I was playing competitive volleyball at the time, and I think it was the combination of sitting at desk, rowing, and all that jumping around in volleyball that was causing my problems. I now have a footrest under my desk which I think helps.

[[old] FrancoisA]

<!--QuoteBegin-Rowrunner+Oct 20 2005, 08:07 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Rowrunner @ Oct 20 2005, 08:07 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I bought a Concept 2 in March and now it´s the second time my left knee starts to hurt. It hurts below the knee cap, most when I go up- and downstairs. <br /><br />I mix rowing with running and I´m pretty sure that the injury is caused by the rowing. I have done most of my rowing strapless and rather easy. Has anyone had a similar injury? What can have caused it? Any suggestion on the best way to use the erg without using the legs? <br /> </td></tr></table><br />I have a similar problem except that the pain emanates from under the knee cap. In my case, it was the running that caused it. The pain got worse every year to the point where I decided to stop running last July (not an easy decision when you also like to do triathlons!). I also have to be careful when doing squats and leg extensions: often my knee will hurt for a day. On the other hand, rowing is very gentle to my knees, no matter how hard I train on the erg. <br />If you want to use the erg without the legs, Xeno Muller (www.gorow.com) has an upper body DVD workout that I highly recommend.

[[old] chickenlegs]

since you are asking for suggestions and opinions..<br /><br />when you run, do you run on cement/asphalt?<br />if you do, you should be surprised if you DON'T have knee problems, not if you do.<br /><br />the human body, in the specific case the human knee, has not evolved to sustain the impulse resulting from running on the road (or the sidewalk).<br />run on soil.<br /><br />regarding the rowing:<br />keep drag factor on ergometer under 130<br />do not hyper-extend your knees, meaning do not move your knees past the point where they are perpendicular to the ground when you are at the catch part of the stroke.

[[old] Rowrunner]

Thank you for your replies.<br /><br />I have been running for many years but have never had this injury before. Therefore I think the rowing has caused it. However, michaelb:s theory is interesting. Maybe the combination isn´t good for me.<br /><br />I have tried to keep my knees perpendicular to the ground at the catch but I guess I have to check this further.<br /><br />I tried to do some easy rowing yesterday and noticed that it hurt in the finish of the drag. Can it be that I somehow overstretch the knee in this position? I thought by rowing strapless this wouldn´t happen.<br /><br />I will check out Xeno Muller´s products. Sounds interesting.

[[old] Byron Drachman]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->do not hyper-extend your knees </td></tr></table> <br />Yes, that works for me also. If my knee is bothering me, I row at 1/2 slide or 3/4 slide until it gets better. <br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I will check out Xeno Muller´s products. </td></tr></table> <br />My suggestion is to get all of them. They're all different. There are lots of things you can do while not rowing at full slide. They're great fun.<br />Byron

[[old] Niels Sawman]

<!--QuoteBegin-Rowrunner+Oct 20 2005, 10:07 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Rowrunner @ Oct 20 2005, 10:07 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I bought a Concept 2 in March and now it´s the second time my left knee starts to hurt. It hurts below the knee cap, most when I go up- and downstairs. <br /><br />I mix rowing with running and I´m pretty sure that the injury is caused by the rowing. I have done most of my rowing strapless and rather easy. Has anyone had a similar injury? What can have caused it? Any suggestion on the best way to use the erg without using the legs? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Running is a hard sport to your knees. Do some more rowing and skip running.<br /><br />I have done some running marathons which have damaged my knees. After I begun ER I haven't had any problems with my knees.

[[old] Laupi]

Agree, pleople believe running is good for health - the opposite is the case - it ruins your joints. Mankind is not made for such an activity. Stop it!

[[old] johnnybike]

As a long term runner now doing a lot of rowing and some longer distance running I have developed knee problems.<br /><br />I over pronate and have worn motion control running shoes for the past 15 years.<br /><br />However my quads have developed through the rowing, unfortunately more on the r/h side (the same as my r/h arm). The physios believe this is causing strain on my patella and causing knee problems.<br /><br />I think I will be looking at orthotics to resove the over pronantion but I am also doing knee strengthening exercises to try and get my patella back into the groove again.

[[old] Byron Drachman]

Hi Johnnybike,<br />This is a little off topic and this discussion might be irrelevant to your knee problems, but I thought because of your moniker and your knee problem I would mention that I recently switched to 165 mm crankarms after using 170's for the last 35 years. Over the years, sometimes I would get mild pain in one of my knees after long bike rides. Since I switched to the shorter cranks, I never get that pain after cycling anymore. Of course, with the shorter cranks, you don't bend the knees quite as much. The best analogy I can think of is that it would be like shortening the slide into the catch just a tad. I thought hill climbing would be harder with the shorter cranks, since you don't have quite the leverage with the shorter cranks. On the other hand, you spend more time with the leg straighter, where you have the most strength, with the shorter cranks. I was pleasantly surprised to find that I can climb just as well (or poorly, depending on your point of view) with the shorter cranks. Similarly, I don't notice much different in my split times on the C2 with a slightly shorter slide into the catch when my knee is bothering me. I suspect the analogy holds: when your knee is that bent you don't have as much leg strength to push compared to when it is straighter, so maybe that explains why my split times don't change that much when I'm using less slide to give my knees a break.<br />Byron

[[old] johnnybike]

Hi Byron. Thank you for taking the trouble to reply. I used the nickname when I joined a Yahoo cycling news group and I needed a Yahoo account. I stuck with it and use it oon most forums now. Somebody got there first on ebay though .<br /><br />I don't so enough cycling these days to think it has caused my knee problems. Interesting theory re the cranks and may well be true. It is ceratinly true that a lot of time and effort is required to get the shoes and knee correctly aligned to prevent knee damage.<br /><br />I can still row wheen I suffer knee injuries, which is heartening really. Enjoy the biking<br /><br />John

[[old] RickMan]

<!--QuoteBegin-Rowrunner+Oct 20 2005, 04:07 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Rowrunner @ Oct 20 2005, 04:07 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I bought a Concept 2 in March and now it´s the second time my left knee starts to hurt. It hurts below the knee cap, most when I go up- and downstairs. <br /><br />I mix rowing with running and I´m pretty sure that the injury is caused by the rowing. I have done most of my rowing strapless and rather easy. Has anyone had a similar injury? What can have caused it? Any suggestion on the best way to use the erg without using the legs? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Hi RR, I've been rowing only for about 6 weeks now, and I notice an aching/pain just blow my kneecap as well. It sometimes also extends down my shin. I'm going to use someone else's line... "I have this theory, completely unsupported by any evidence..."<br /><br />I have always had a bit of a 'bad leg', I think my gait was hampered since 14 years old when I got a spike driven into my leg during a bad rope swinging accident (the whole story is even stranger than that sounds...) As a result, my right leg has never been as fluid and coordinated as the left, and has always had a variety of aches and pains that I've never felt in the left. Since rowing, two things have happened. I have developed these aches (just below the knee and in the shin) and I am walking straighter and more balanced. Now, the theory I am going with is that the leg was already damaged, and my gait protected that area from getting stimulated because the injury has been there for years... Now, with the steady, no impact stimulation that the rowing provides, that area is now being brought back to life. I feel the 'strings' in my knee and upper shin strengthening, but I honestly think the discomfort is simply from feeling the healing of an injury that has never truly healed because of my body protecting it from being involved in normal activity.<br /><br />Because of this (possibly completely insane) attitude I've adopted to MY pain, I tend to think yours could be the running and not the rowing. I think it MIGHT be the rowing just bringing it to your attention.<br /><br />Hope this helps! <br />

[[old] ljwagner]

<br />See how far your leg straightens. Mark Spitz, Olympic swimmer, had legs that hyperextended about 10-15 degrees, giving him an incredible kick swimming. <br /><br />You may have a slight joint alignment problem somewhere between your feet and your hips. Do you use orthotics to run, but not to row ? Do you angle out one knee more than the other on the erg ? What about foot angle on the footboards.<br /><br />Pay attention for pain rowing easy vs hard.

[[old] Porkchop]

<!--QuoteBegin-RickMan+Oct 21 2005, 08:03 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(RickMan @ Oct 21 2005, 08:03 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Rowrunner+Oct 20 2005, 04:07 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Rowrunner @ Oct 20 2005, 04:07 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I bought a Concept 2 in March and now it´s the second time my left knee starts to hurt. It hurts below the knee cap, most when I go up- and downstairs. <br /><br />I mix rowing with running and I´m pretty sure that the injury is caused by the rowing. I have done most of my rowing strapless and rather easy. Has anyone had a similar injury? What can have caused it? Any suggestion on the best way to use the erg without using the legs? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Hi RR, I've been rowing only for about 6 weeks now, and I notice an aching/pain just blow my kneecap as well. It sometimes also extends down my shin. I'm going to use someone else's line... "I have this theory, completely unsupported by any evidence..."<br /><br />I have always had a bit of a 'bad leg', I think my gait was hampered since 14 years old when I got a spike driven into my leg during a bad rope swinging accident (the whole story is even stranger than that sounds...) As a result, my right leg has never been as fluid and coordinated as the left, and has always had a variety of aches and pains that I've never felt in the left. Since rowing, two things have happened. I have developed these aches (just below the knee and in the shin) and I am walking straighter and more balanced. Now, the theory I am going with is that the leg was already damaged, and my gait protected that area from getting stimulated because the injury has been there for years... Now, with the steady, no impact stimulation that the rowing provides, that area is now being brought back to life. I feel the 'strings' in my knee and upper shin strengthening, but I honestly think the discomfort is simply from feeling the healing of an injury that has never truly healed because of my body protecting it from being involved in normal activity.<br /><br />Because of this (possibly completely insane) attitude I've adopted to MY pain, I tend to think yours could be the running and not the rowing. I think it MIGHT be the rowing just bringing it to your attention.<br /><br />Hope this helps! <br /> </td></tr></table><br />In addition, you are probably strengthening your bad leg considerably. The way the rower is set up, it would be hard to favor one leg over the other (unlike, say, walking). It sounds like you have been favoring that leg for many years in other activities. As you challenge the bad leg, it would tend to be more sore than your stronger leg, because it is getting a harder workout than you are used to -- it has to work harder to keep up with the good leg. The harder you work it, the stronger it becomes, and the better your gait becomes.