Stroke Rate Training

[old] razorfizh · Post by **[old] razorfizh** » October 20th, 2005, 12:45 pm

(another newbie question!) I've noticed that a common approach to interval training for members on the forum is doing pyramid style training using Stroke Rates as the guidelines. ie. 4' @ 24 SPM, + 3' @ 26 SPM, 2' @ 28 SPM, 1' @ 30 SPM, 2' @ 28 SPM, 3' @26 SPM, 4' @ 24 SPM. The wolverine plan takes this a step further and actually counts out the stroke #s during these pieces.<br /><br />For erg training, what I am wondering is why wouldn't you use the split time as a guideline rather than stroke rate? In a boat, SR training is the best approach because you don't have the cool way to measure power output from each stroke. On the erg you do. <br /><br />It makes sense that increasing the stroke rate should increase split times - but I can be lazy, shorten my stroke or slide time and meet the requirement. However, if you go by split time, the intervals are focused on power and the lower split time always means pull harder (which may also mean higher stroke rate as a response). <br /><br />So rather than SR Pyramids, wouldn't this be a better way to maximize the benefits of interval training?<br /><br />Example for a 3*15' session <br />Take the split you can hold for 20' as a guideline - call it 20sp<br />3' @ 20sp+6<br />3' @ 20sp+4<br />3' @ 20sp+2<br />3' @ 20sp <br />3' @ 20sp -2<br /><br />I've done both training sessions and if I am honest with the stroke rate piece and increase power as I go, I find both equally challenging. The split time interval piece has a slight psychological advantage in that if you make it through all 3 pieces at the target rate, it may make you think that for the 20 min test, you can actually hold it at 20sp -2 .... maybe ...<br /><br />Just wondering what other people's thoughts on this were. <br /><br /><br /><br />

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » October 20th, 2005, 2:01 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(razorfizh @ Oct 20 2005, 09:45 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>(another newbie question!) <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Sounded a lot like a "newbie answer" to me. Well said! <br /><br />Though you do need to learn about NK, or other in boat monitoring systems.

[old] jamesg · Post by **[old] jamesg** » October 20th, 2005, 2:41 pm

RF,<br />I use Watt-minutes per stroke. 10 is a handy number to start with. At normal training ratings, 18-24, we'd be pulling at between 180 and 240 Watts and the sums are easy. <br /><br />My normal ratio these days is 9 - 9.5 and it keeps me fit ok.

[old] Niels Sawman · Post by **[old] Niels Sawman** » October 21st, 2005, 5:47 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(razorfizh @ Oct 20 2005, 06:45 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>(another newbie question!) I've noticed that a common approach to interval training for members on the forum is doing pyramid style training using Stroke Rates as the guidelines. ie. 4' @ 24 SPM, + 3' @ 26 SPM, 2' @ 28 SPM, 1' @ 30 SPM, 2' @ 28 SPM, 3' @26 SPM, 4' @ 24 SPM. The wolverine plan takes this a step further and actually counts out the stroke #s during these pieces.<br /><br />For erg training, what I am wondering is why wouldn't you use the split time as a guideline rather than stroke rate? In a boat, SR training is the best approach because you don't have the cool way to measure power output from each stroke. On the erg you do. <br /><br />It makes sense that increasing the stroke rate should increase split times - but I can be lazy, shorten my stroke or slide time and meet the requirement. However, if you go by split time, the intervals are focused on power and the lower split time always means pull harder (which may also mean higher stroke rate as a response). <br /><br />So rather than SR Pyramids, wouldn't this be a better way to maximize the benefits of interval training?<br /><br />Example for a 3*15' session <br />Take the split you can hold for 20' as a guideline - call it 20sp<br />3' @ 20sp+6<br />3' @ 20sp+4<br />3' @ 20sp+2<br />3' @ 20sp <br />3' @ 20sp -2<br /><br />I've done both training sessions and if I am honest with the stroke rate piece and increase power as I go, I find both equally challenging. The split time interval piece has a slight psychological advantage in that if you make it through all 3 pieces at the target rate, it may make you think that for the 20 min test, you can actually hold it at 20sp -2 .... maybe ...<br /><br />Just wondering what other people's thoughts on this were. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Hi - I do agree with your point!<br /><br />You can easily go forth and back on the seat doing a high strokerate, but actually do nothing.<br /><br />I fokus on the 500 m split time, and I have learned that there are worlds between 2:00 and 1:50 and again between 1:50 and 1:40.<br /><br />The 500 m split time is a good standard on how many watts you produce ie how much energy you produce.<br /><br />Another way to produce many watts is actually to have a low stroke rate ie 22, but pull hard ie 500 m 1:50.<br /><br />In that way you resemple rowing on water. But you get very tired, because you do not benefit from the elasticity of a high strokerate.

[old] ancho · Post by **[old] ancho** » October 21st, 2005, 6:36 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(razorfizh @ Oct 20 2005, 05:45 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>... The wolverine plan takes this a step further and actually counts out the stroke #s during these pieces...<br /><br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />WP uses stroke rate <u>and</u> split times in its level 4 workouts. For workouts level 1-3 what counts are split times (pace), based on your 2k time!<br /><br />You can find the WP <a href='http://rowing.concept2.com/forums/wolverine_plan.htm' target='_blank'>here</a>, and as a very fine excel file to calculate your own WP at<a href='http://www.galleys.org/rowing/' target='_blank'>www.galleys.org/rowing/</a>.<br /><br />Have fun!<br />

[old] Niels Sawman · Post by **[old] Niels Sawman** » October 21st, 2005, 11:27 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ancho @ Oct 21 2005, 12:36 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(razorfizh @ Oct 20 2005, 05:45 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>... The wolverine plan takes this a step further and actually counts out the stroke #s during these pieces...<br /><br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />WP uses stroke rate <u>and</u> split times in its level 4 workouts. For workouts level 1-3 what counts are split times (pace), based on your 2k time!<br /><br />You can find the WP <a href='http://rowing.concept2.com/forums/wolverine_plan.htm' target='_blank'>here</a>, and as a very fine excel file to calculate your own WP at<a href='http://www.galleys.org/rowing/' target='_blank'>www.galleys.org/rowing/</a>.<br /><br />Have fun! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Thank You very much. I shall study the Wolverine plan more closely