Two Days A Week Training Program

[old] Carl Henrik · Post by **[old] Carl Henrik** » October 14th, 2005, 9:58 am

Hello erger community!<br /><br />Yesterday I started erg coaching two first time rowers. They were ready to commit to two days a week for now and I want to give them the best fitness return for time spent. I encouraged them to, and think they will, do some physical activity on top of these two sessions. Probably nothing too intense for the heart but more like floor ball and ultimate freesbee. These sports still have some aerobic demands which is good. The two erg sessions are set on thursdays and mondays. The thursday session I have decided will be 4x1000m since this session allows alternating on the same machine because of potential machine shortage. On top of this it's a great work out. <br /><br />The two beginners are tall, I think 192 and 201 cm and slim both of them. I'm thinking of what the monday session should be. Some alternatives below. What they feel for will off course have an impact on the choice as well. The weight sessions I think are good for allowing improvements in the long run, stability/injury reduction, and for increasing mental comfort from training because of general strength and appearance. <br /><br /><br />-Massbuilding weights + 30 min UT1 <br /><br />-Massbuilding weights + 30 min UT2<br /><br />-Mass building weights session + AT-ish session after that. <br /><br />-AT session. 3x10 min or 10k. Hard but not maximum!<br /><br />-UT2 40-60min<br /><br />The <i>very first </i> session they did yesterday as a 4x1000m session. Both of them were able to keep a fairly even pace so the session was a good benchmark and training. They averaged around 264 and 261 watt meaning they could do at least 7:19.5 and 7:21.3 for 2k. It will be interesting to see what improvements they can make with only two sessions a week. There is a risk they get hooked though and start erging more as some of you might know... <br /><br /><br />

[old] JimR · Post by **[old] JimR** » October 14th, 2005, 12:14 pm

With only two days a week I would think erging only and longer at that. Maybe 2x4K, or 30-60min. Usually 4x1K come on top of a substantial aerobic base.<br /><br />JimR

[old] Carl Henrik · Post by **[old] Carl Henrik** » October 15th, 2005, 12:06 pm

Any more opinions?

[old] R S T · Post by **[old] R S T** » October 15th, 2005, 12:25 pm

I voted for the long UT2 session.<br /><br />Without a doubt, if time is a constraint, a long row would be the best plan:<br /><br />1 - It will help endurance/cardio more than shorter sessions and any weight training plan;<br />2 - A longer session also provides an opportunity to improve technique; and<br /><br />3 - Weight training will assist times more once technique and cardio ability is in place. <br /><br />I am sure there are many more reasons to support my view - to be honest, the longer row feels right 'instinctively' (but then again, I am not a coach.. .)<br /><br />Cheers<br />RichardT

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » October 15th, 2005, 1:42 pm

What are mass building weights?

[old] Cran · Post by **[old] Cran** » October 15th, 2005, 3:00 pm

no point doing weights for only one session a week, also no point doing ut2 sessions when only training twice, ut2 is for when you are doing loads of ut1 sessions already but want toi do more training without over training...<br /><br />So I guess that just leaves the AT session...<br /><br />Although I'd probably say do a UT1 session, 2 or 3 x 6K with 2 mins rest depending on available time.

[old] Carl Henrik · Post by **[old] Carl Henrik** » October 16th, 2005, 9:08 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Oct 15 2005, 05:42 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>What are mass building weights? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Sorry, I was a bit sloppy when writing. It's what I think you guessed it is: lifting weights with the purpose of building muscle mass.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » October 16th, 2005, 3:06 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Carl Henrik @ Oct 16 2005, 06:08 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>lifting weights with the purpose of building muscle mass. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />What is your purpose, improvement-wise, for doing that.<br /><br />And how do you go about it.

[old] Carl Henrik · Post by **[old] Carl Henrik** » October 16th, 2005, 4:51 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Oct 16 2005, 07:06 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><br />What is your purpose, improvement-wise, for doing that.<br /><br />And how do you go about it. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />See original post for purposes. <br /><br />Few reps high loads, compound movements, training log, and focus on weekly progression and quality reps over quantity and supporting in buying a protein supplement.

[old] Carl Henrik · Post by **[old] Carl Henrik** » October 17th, 2005, 6:06 pm

Today was that other day. We did a weights session followed by a fartlek style endurance session. Averaging around 60% and never going below 50% of 2k wattage. Even though I did the same weights session as them, including unaccustomed excercises for me, I think the beginners were much less recovered than me when we started erging because 60% seemed hard to them. This I think was due tu me having a better aerobic fitness that was better at restoring the muscles after each strength excercise. Also, the lactic acid threshold is probably lower than 60% of 2k wattage for sedentary people which might explain it fully.

[old] MarcusLL · Post by **[old] MarcusLL** » October 18th, 2005, 6:56 am

I've combined weights and rowing for years (admittedly not particularly successfully), and personally I've always found it *miles* easier to do the rowing first. I find that even a pretty hard rowing session hardly affects my lifting at all, even squats, deadlifts, powercleans etc which use the primary rowing muscles, whereas if I was to lift first I'd be dead for rowing. Might want to consider doing them the other way around?<br />

[old] Carl Henrik · Post by **[old] Carl Henrik** » October 18th, 2005, 7:18 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(MarcusLL @ Oct 18 2005, 10:56 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I've combined weights and rowing for years (admittedly not particularly successfully), and personally I've always found it *miles* easier to do the rowing first. I find that even a pretty hard rowing session hardly affects my lifting at all, even squats, deadlifts, powercleans etc which use the primary rowing muscles, whereas if I was to lift first I'd be dead for rowing. Might want to consider doing them the other way around? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Thank you for that feedback! I have found myself that after a 4x1k or 5x4min I'm almost stronger at bench press than normally. These are different muscle groups at work though.<br /><br />Since the erging session was supposed to be easy, I thought it might help recovery from the weights as well doing it after. Also I wanted full focus and energy available for the weights since the session's goal was to add muscles, but just "maintain" aerobic capacity. We keep log and starting with the weights the pre-fatigue will also be identical (none) and therefore there are no excuses for not doing as many as last time or more. Mentaly I think this way is easier as well. One can consider the total session done after the weights and the erging is just relaxation, recovery, maintenance, with sporadic 2-4min a little harder just for fun (and a little bonus stimuli). <br /><br />If doing tough erging though, I would definitely use your model with the erging first. I choose not to do a hard-hard combo though.

[old] Carl Henrik · Post by **[old] Carl Henrik** » October 19th, 2005, 5:31 pm

Don't know if anyone is interested but me...but since I am, some one more might be. Today was second 4x1k and third session in total. The return from the two previous sessions was quite large. One of the beginners increased with 1.9w and the other one with 8.8w from last week. The erger with the bigger (huge) improvement had his fastest k in the first interval last time but followed my instructions this time. The one with the lesser improvement did so last time, but went too fast the first k this time. <br /><br /><br />