Summer/fall Training

[old] Rowan11088 · Post by **[old] Rowan11088** » August 3rd, 2005, 11:09 am

Hey all, I just signed up for this forum in the hopes of getting some advice on my training. I'm going into my sophomore year at Dartmouth, and I'm taking the fall term off (as many students do here), so I've got basically until January to really train my butt off getting ready for team workouts and the upcoming season. Just for reference I'm 6'0, 170-175 lbs, and I just started rowing this past year as a freshman. This past year I had a lot of trouble on the erg, even for a walk-on. Part of it was technique, at least according to my coach, but to put it bluntly it took me till the end of the winter to even get as good as some of the weaker freshmen were when they first started. I had a great experience on the water, but I don't think I'll survive this year if I'm still so far behind indoors. I think understandably I'm having confidence issues sitting on an erg at all at this point, and having some good advice on training would help. Right now I'm doing a lot of running, which I'm getting pretty good at. Every other morning I get up early to run 6 miles, at a 7:30 mile pace (I think that's good...?) and I do some 65 minute runs as well at 8:30 pace. I'm lifting at least every other day, and now I'm trying to work in some shorter erging interval stuff. My favorite right now is 15 x 40'', with 20'' rest in between. I'll usually do two sets of those before a lift, if I can manage. But even on extremely short pieces like that, my average split is only around 1:43. I'm aiming mostly just to improve my 2k, which was a miserable (for my age and fitness level) 7:12. What can I do from now until January to improve this as much as possible? Oh, and I should mention I'm 17, which some people have told me is partly why I'm behind most of the other guys, who are 19-20 at least. Plus, I'm considering moving to lightweight next year since I'm right on the cusp, any advice there?

[old] sharp_rower · Post by **[old] sharp_rower** » August 3rd, 2005, 11:35 am

Hello, I think you are being too hard on yourself with the running. Don't run as much and erg more if being on the crew team is really what interests you. I get the sense from your message though that you're not really excited about the crew team and are forcing it on yourself for whatever reason. You say you have confidence issues on the erg and that's probably due in part to the fact that perhaps you don't want to be on the team in the first place. Of course, you are younger than average so you have time to figure out what you want to do and still give the crew team a go. I think your term off would be better spent doing something that really interests you, something you feel confident about. Then again, significantly raising your confidence level at something for which you previously had a low confidence level is a great achievement, too.

[old] Rowan11088 · Post by **[old] Rowan11088** » August 3rd, 2005, 1:38 pm

Well perhaps I gave the wrong impression. I really do love the sport, especially on the water, and I really love the team as well. I felt that I did poorly because I compared myself to everyone else, not because anyone resented it or tried to make a point. It's just that I do get down on myself when I can't compare to the other guys, and I feel like they're depending on me to be good enough when we race. There's no question in my mind this is the sport I want to do, I just haven't had much success yet (that makes sense, right?). And as for the running, it's mostly because I have a treadmill at home, and the gym where I erg is 15-20 minutes away, I couldn't fit that in round-trip every morning. Plus I find that I last longer and burn more calories on the treadmill, so I think I'm getting better cardio, even if it's focusing less on quad/back strength.

[old] Jim Barry · Post by **[old] Jim Barry** » August 3rd, 2005, 1:48 pm

Another member had a similar question on a thread called "Summer Training" back in June and took on some of the advice below into his training over the last 6 weeks and has improved quite a bit and exceeded his goals. I'll repost since it seems to be an effective way to get into a somewhat formal indoor rowing plan. ==================================================== For what its worth (comparison whatever), this is 17 weeks of my training log in which I progress my 7:33 2k to 7:02.5 (at age 35). Just some notes. I was a little slow in late Sept after giving blood. In late November I took a two day hike that was about 6 hours per day. I never lifted an oz. I also went from 174lbs to 163lbs. Note that in 14 weeks (and hardly any interval work I got to 7:12). It was very hard interval work that took me to 7:02.5. You could use these sessions to check on your progress/capability. I would mostly call this in an investment in ut1. To me a critical pace (and supported by ut2 recovery rows as you can see). Most all my rowing took off like it was fuel injected nitro when I added in the painful 5' intervals intervals (Level 2ish work). I will note though that the next day after my test row I came down with a cold that was was the worst in my life (as it was for my wife who gave it to me). Ultimately I did salvage some fitness by February, but was only good for 7:13 at the crash-b's. date/ distance/ pace/ notes 09/10/2000 10000 02:22.1 Pretty much out of shape. 09/11/2000 09/12/2000 09/13/2000 09/14/2000 09/15/2000 09/16/2000 09/17/2000 10000 02:12.2 09/18/2000 10000 02:18.4 09/19/2000 09/20/2000 09/21/2000 10000 02:10.8 09/22/2000 10000 02:14.7 09/23/2000 10000 02:07.3 09/24/2000 10000 02:16.1 09/25/2000 09/26/2000 09/27/2000 09/28/2000 10000 02:10.8 09/29/2000 10000 02:15.3 09/30/2000 10000 02:09.1 10/01/2000 10000 02:15.8 10/02/2000 10/03/2000 10/04/2000 10/05/2000 10000 02:09.1 10/06/2000 10000 02:15.3 10/07/2000 10/08/2000 10/09/2000 10000 02:05.7 10/10/2000 10/11/2000 10/12/2000 10000 02:04.8 10/13/2000 10000 02:12.3 10/14/2000 10000 02:03.7 10/15/2000 10/16/2000 10/17/2000 10/18/2000 10/19/2000 10/20/2000 10000 02:12.2 10/21/2000 10000 02:03.1 10/22/2000 10000 02:10.6 10/23/2000 10000 02:01.0 10/24/2000 10/25/2000 10/26/2000 2000 01:50.5 7:22 2k test 10/27/2000 5000 01:56.6 19:26 5k test 10/28/2000 10/29/2000 10000 02:11.8 10/30/2000 10/31/2000 11/01/2000 11/02/2000 10000 02:11.6 11/03/2000 10000 02:01.5 11/04/2000 10000 02:10.3 11/05/2000 11/06/2000 11/07/2000 11/08/2000 11/09/2000 5000 01:59.5 11/10/2000 13000 02:10.8 11/11/2000 7000 01:58.9 11/12/2000 11/13/2000 11/14/2000 11/15/2000 7000 02:01.6 11/16/2000 13000 02:10.1 11/17/2000 11/18/2000 11/19/2000 11/20/2000 11/21/2000 11/22/2000 11/23/2000 14000 02:08.2 11/24/2000 5200 01:55.4 5 minute intervals 5 minute rests 11/25/2000 13000 02:09.2 11/26/2000 10000 01:59.5 All Out PB, very difficult 11/27/2000 11/28/2000 11/29/2000 11/30/2000 13000 02:04.6 12/01/2000 13000 02:09.7 12/02/2000 11000 02:02.7 12/03/2000 13000 02:09.5 12/04/2000 12/05/2000 12/06/2000 13000 02:10.9 12/07/2000 42195 02:19.5 Marathon Row 12/08/2000 12/09/2000 01:58.0 5x5 minute intervals 5 minute rests 12/10/2000 4250 02:21.2 Junk 12/11/2000 12/12/2000 12/13/2000 15000 02:08.1 later in day: 2k test 7:12 12/14/2000 12/15/2000 10000 02:02.0 12/16/2000 13000 02:09.3 12/17/2000 12/18/2000 10000 02:01.5 12/19/2000 12/20/2000 13000 02:08.7 12/21/2000 01:55.4 4x5 minute intervals 1 minute rests 12/22/2000 13000 02:07.9 12/23/2000 01:55.0 4x5 minute intervals 1 minute rests 12/24/2000 13000 02:06.6 Made LW, first million rowed. 12/25/2000 Turn 35! 12/26/2000 12/27/2000 13000 02:09.0 12/28/2000 01:55.4 5x5 minute intervals 1 minute rests 12/29/2000 13000 02:08.2 12/30/2000 01:55.4 5x5 minute intervals 1 minute rests 12/31/2000 13000 02:07.6 01/01/2001 01/02/2001 01/03/2001 13000 02:09.8 01/04/2001 01:53.9 4x5 minute intervals 1 minute rests 01/05/2001 13000 02:09.7 01/06/2001 01:53.9 4x5 minute intervals 1 minute rests 01/07/2001 13000 02:07.4 01/08/2001 2000 01:45.7 Test

[old] swavo1 · Post by **[old] swavo1** » August 3rd, 2005, 1:57 pm

I personally would mainly erg if there was one available to me. I'm 17 myself, and personally I think you'll find the best results by doing weights maybe a couple times a week while erging almost everyday. Also, it seems the only erg workouts you do are short distances. You should try to a combination of short/medium/long distances over the week. Usually during a week, I'll erg 5-6 times a week. Twice during the week I'll do 8x500m or 4x1000 for my short distances. For medium, I'll do 2 x 20 mins, stuff like that, and for long distances I'll do a 40 min piece and then 20-30 mins, or just an hour on the erg

[old] Rowan11088 · Post by **[old] Rowan11088** » August 3rd, 2005, 2:36 pm

Some good advice so far, thanks. I'm really enjoying the running too much to do away with it entirely, but I supposed it's time I get honest with myself and start putting real time on the erg. I'm thinking, 2 10k's a week for now, in addition to the other stuff I've been doing, and maybe one day of short interval work. I wasn't planning on cutting back on the lifting, since I feel like if I do end up on the heavyweight team again I definitely have to gain 10 lbs or so, but so far after a whole summer of it I think I'm really just more toned, rather than bigger. Not sure what to do about that, except hope that as I get older it will kick in a little more. And those workout logs are some really good guidelines, I'm going to try and do some similar training.

[old] Neb154 · Post by **[old] Neb154** » August 3rd, 2005, 2:52 pm

I followed something along the lines of Jim's training log and combined it with some lifting and so far have dropped 24 seconds off my PB this summer. The long distances add the foundation for your 2k. Then in the prime of your spring season, add the interval work such as the 4 x 1k, the 8 x 500, and you'll drop another 10 seconds or so most likely. For reference my schedule is : Sunday : Easy 15k Monday : Hard 10k + Weights Tuesday : Easy 10k + Weights Wedensday : Off Thursday : Hard 10k + Weights Friday : Easy 10k + Weights Sataurday : Off These weights are high reps, low weights, rowing specific movements. I would also reccomend for your training to add in ab circuits, extremely important for your core in rowing. In your case, since you enjoy running, you might want to substitue some of the recovery rows (easier ones) for long runs.

[old] swavo1 · Post by **[old] swavo1** » August 3rd, 2005, 3:03 pm

I think you should still have your training program centered around erging. If you look at the U.S. rowing programs, the teams that concentrate their training around erging have been the more succesful U.S. national teams.

[old] dadams · Post by **[old] dadams** » August 3rd, 2005, 3:47 pm

If I may throw in my two cents worth here. More than likely you're going to be tested with a 2k and a 6k piece. From what I'm getting, you're not going that sort of training. Start! Alot of college coaches are actually more interested in the 6k results more than the 2k (better endurance). But that, of course, is a personal preference on their part. Longer pieces is the way to start. Give up on the sprint stuff for now. Stay with the weights!! I've seen to many athletes/rowers that neglect this aspect of their training. The running is fine, just don't let it dominate your cardio work. Reserve that for the erg. Want the spot in the boat. I know that's not a physical training point, but it is a mental one. Overcome the mental, and the physical will be alot easier. Unless you have a breathing issue (smoker, asthma, etc) there isn't any reason why you shouldn't be going well below sub-7 (2k) and a sub-21 (6k) at this point in your life. Want those goals as well. Make up a plan that will help you achieve those goals. Hope this helps. Dwayne

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » August 3rd, 2005, 4:20 pm

Yes, since you're only 6' tall, you would definitely do better going lightweight. Long time world record holder Eskild Ebbessen and current record holder Elia Luini are both around 6'1, and weigh 158 and 152 respectively. The weights should help you to gain more strength for your weight, i.e. the firming will help you to be more lean and lose weight.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » August 3rd, 2005, 4:26 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Rowan11088 @ Aug 3 2005, 08:09 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>My favorite right now is 15 x 40'', with 20'' rest in between. I'll usually do two sets of those before a lift, if I can manage. But even on extremely short pieces like that, my average split is only around 1:43.[right] </td></tr></table> Taking longer rests would help you to go faster, for example 15x 60" with 60" rests in between. However, I think 15x 2:00 with 2:00 rests would be better for a 2k.

[old] NavigationHazard · Post by **[old] NavigationHazard** » August 4th, 2005, 9:00 am

If I can add my 2 cents' worth -- If you aren't already doing so, consider letting your coach know what you're planning to do in the off season and soliciting feedback in advance. The chances are pretty good s/he isn't interested in massive erg scores per se, but wants good times achieved in a way that will translate well to OTW rowing. No doubt, charging ahead and yanking a lot of chain earnestly will improve your fitness and lower your test times. But you'll probably do yourself an even bigger favor by paying a lot of attention to improving the technique involved. For obvious reasons, coaches tend to love people whose strokes move boats rather than stop boats....

[old] Rowan11088 · Post by **[old] Rowan11088** » August 4th, 2005, 9:20 am

Yeah I've told my coach that I'm taking the fall off, but we just got a new coach as of this summer for the varsity, and I think he's a bit overwhelmed with information. Hence I feel the need to take things into my own hands a bit more. I'm encouraged by the feedback here though, and I'm definitely going to start adding some 10k's and 30 minute pieces into my workout plan. I seem to have gained some poundage since the season ended, and that will be a good way of seeing if it's just blubber or some muscle that I can actually use. The only advice I got from the coach (who seems like a great guy at least) is to do heavy ab work, which I've already incorporated into my lifts.