The At Band

[[old] neilb]

Today rather than 60 min steady capped at 75% HRR I did a 10 min warm up and then 30 min capped at 85% HRR. For this I was at 80% and above for nearly 21 mins (maintained 1:49.9).<br /><br />The guides tend to show AT sessions as lasting for 10 -15 mins and I wonder if either my HR points are wrong or whether it is possible to train at 80% plus for periods of 20 mins or more but not really efficient to do so.<br /><br />My HR calculations are based on the standard 220 -age (and so my max could actually be higher than 173 which would mean I am overstating my % HRR ) and my resting HR.<br /><br />I guess the answer will include doing some sort of HR test but I would be interested in thoughts on the period for AT work and how to make the most efficient use of time for it (ie. one 30 session where I get to 80% -assuming measurement is right - after first 8 mins or say 2 x 12 min with rest inbetween but going faster to get HR up quicker.)<br /><br />Neil <br /><br />

[[old] Byron Drachman]

<!--QuoteBegin-neilb+May 23 2005, 09:11 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(neilb @ May 23 2005, 09:11 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Today rather than 60 min steady capped at 75% HRR I did a 10 min warm up and then 30 min capped at 85% HRR.  For this I was at 80% and above for nearly 21 mins (maintained 1:49.9).<br /><br />The guides tend to show AT sessions as lasting for 10 -15 mins and I wonder if either my HR points are wrong or whether it is possible to train at 80% plus for periods of 20 mins or more but not really efficient to do so.<br /><br />My HR calculations are based on the standard 220 -age (and so my max could actually be higher than 173 which would mean I am overstating my % HRR ) and my resting HR.<br /><br />I guess the answer will include doing some sort of HR test but I would be interested in thoughts on the period for AT work and how to make the most efficient use of time for it (ie. one 30 session where I get to 80% -assuming measurement is right - after first 8 mins or say 2 x 12 min with rest inbetween but going faster to get HR up quicker.)<br /><br />Neil <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hi Neil,<br /><br />The 220 - age could be way off. For example, that formula gives me a max heart rate of 153. I've seen 182 several times on the ergometer, and higher on a stair climber. <br /><br />There is a discussion of heart rate bands at the training guide at the UK website:<br /><br /><a href='http://www.concept2.co.uk/guide/downloads.php' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.co.uk/guide/downloads.php</a><br /><br />See chapter 3. The whole training guide is interesting, I think. For starters, they start with the 220 - age, later they use resting heart rate +percent*(max heart rate-resting heart rate) for better accuracy.<br /><br />The charts later on are confusing. They mean use resting heart rate +percent*(max heart rate-resting heart rate) when they use the label %max heart rate.<br /><br />You can do a "step test" by increasing watts until no further increase is possible to determine your max heart rate, or else do an all out 500 meter sprint. <br /><br />Resting heart rate is usually taken as the heart rate you measure first thing in the morning.<br /><br />Byron <br /><br /><br /><br />

[[old] Alan Maddocks]

Neil,<br /><br />Regarding HOW to do AT work ....<br /><br />AT pace will be close to the pace that you could sustain for an hour in a maximal effort (i.e. it tends to be SLOWER than 10K pace).<br /><br />You could do an AT session by rowing continuously for 30 minutes as you did.<br /><br />Alternatively you could do it as an interval session e.g. 3 x 15 minutes (with 5-6 minutes recovery).<br /><br />The advantage of the latter (and probably the reason why the training guides suggest intervals) is that you are spending MORE time at AT pace (in the example above, 50% more) without straining to HR ranges above AT.<br /><br />Cheers,<br />Alan.

[[old] neilb]

Alan,<br /><br />My 60 min test piece last week was done at a steady 1:51 split. This gave an average HR of 85% HRR, I touched 98% and was at or above 80% for 48 mins.<br /><br />A 30 min session capped at 85% tends to be just under 1:50 split .<br /><br />Clearly I do not want to be doing the hard 60 min all the time (once very 3 months to test progress is enough!) I measure HRR using resting HR but without a max test I rely upon 220 -age whereas I suspect my max is higher (and so my true 85% HRR will be higher than I am predicting at the moment.).<br /><br />If I split the AT into say 3 x15 min I assume that I will work harder i.e. a lower split so as to get HR up to the limits sooner. (At present using the 60 min result as a guide and a 1:51 split I would be only at 80% after nearly 13 mins.)<br /><br />I may try 3x12 tomorrow using say 1:48 as the average split and see where I get to.<br /><br />Thanks<br /><br />Neil

[[old] Alan Maddocks]

Neil,<br /><br />If you do 3 x 12 @ 1-48 pace you are likely to be working ABOVE AT pace & therefore doing a totally different kind of session<br /><br />If your 60 minutes test gave you a 1-51 pace, then that's the one to work at.<br /><br />Try 3 x 12 minutes at 1-51<br /><br />If it feels too easy, just add a 4th interval at the same pace.<br /><br />Cheers,<br />Alan.

[[old] holm188]

I was wondering:<br /><br />when you (anybody reading this) do a 60 min max effort piece (or 15k or 20k) at what point (how much time/distance from the end for example) do you go over your AT heartrate (AT HR you assume or the one you know from a step test, specifiy please)?<br /><br />Any thoughts on when that time/distance should be?<br /><br />Thanks, Holm

[[old] Steve_R]

<!--QuoteBegin-holm188+May 24 2005, 08:44 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(holm188 @ May 24 2005, 08:44 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I was wondering:<br /><br />when you (anybody reading this) do a 60 min max effort piece (or 15k or 20k) at what point (how much time/distance from the end for example) do you go over your AT heartrate (AT HR you assume or the one you know from a step test, specifiy please)?<br /><br />Any thoughts on when that time/distance should be?<br /><br />Thanks, Holm <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I have no idea at what distance it should be but I can tell you what happened on my last 60min test:<br /><br />I entered AT (80% HRR) at 36:30 and went beyond AT (over 85% HRR) 55:35. My resting HR is 52 and my HRMax is 184 based on a step test. This puts my AT band between 157 and 164.<br /><br />This is the only 60min test I have done using my Polar wrist unit on 5s samples so I am not sure how typical this is for me.<br /><br />Steve

[[old] neilb]

[quote=Steve_R,May 24 2005, 09:49 PM]<br /><br /><br /><br />[/quote]<br /><br />I entered AT (80% HRR) at 36:30 and went beyond AT (over 85% HRR) 55:35. My resting HR is 52 and my HRMax is 184 based on a step test. This puts my AT band between 157 and 164.<br /><br />Steve <br />[/quote]<br /><br />Steve,<br /><br />For me I entered 80% HRR (149) after 12 mins and so spent 48 mins above this level. My average was 85% (155) and max 98% (171). This is what makes me think that my max HR is higher than using the formula 220 -age, which would give a max of 173. (I also need to recheck my resting rate as I think this has dropped over the last 2 months.)<br /><br />I think that if you are to use HR bands as a training guide then you really do need to have a good idea of what your maximum HR is otherwise you will be tend to be training at a level lower than you think.<br /><br />For some people this is not a bad thing but as you become more familiar with training and know what your body is telling you the more accurate use of a proper max HR is necessary if you want to use HR bands to train rather than exercise.<br /><br />Neil<br /><br />

[[old] holm188]

Thanks Steve and Neil for your replies,<br /><br />My Rest HR is 48, my max HR based on 220-age is 181m but I recently have never seen more than 176 on the HR monitor (12-15 years ago my max was 185).<br /><br />So using 176 as max, my AT band is 150-157 which I entered at 20 min and went over at 27 min. <br /><br />Using 181 as max, AT 154-161 crossed at 22 min to 33 min. <br /><br />I was over 170 for the last 15 min, average HR 159. I started relatively slowly for the first 15 minutes as I really did not want to have to slow down before the end (that happened the last 2 tries).