Silly Question Perhaps...but

[[old] Doczoc]

As a newbie, I've followed the advice in the training literature to start with a damper setting of 5-6, and my impression that a damper setting of 3 is optimal. If that is true, what is the point of damper setting 10. I'm a big bloke (320lbs) and so like the idea of using a high damper setting but reluctant to go against the advise of the training literature. Can anyone offer some insight for this dummy? Thanks

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-Doczoc+May 18 2005, 07:16 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Doczoc @ May 18 2005, 07:16 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As a newbie, I've followed the advice in the training literature to start with a damper setting of 5-6, and my impression that a damper setting of 3 is optimal. If that is true, what is the point of damper setting 10. I'm a big bloke (320lbs) and so like the idea of using a high damper setting but reluctant to go against the advise of the training literature. Can anyone offer some insight for this dummy? Thanks <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />It can be useful for Drive technique training. Since the Flywheel will be moving much slower it is easier to work on getting an early connection and coordinating the entire drive into a smooth motion. It's much like practicing any movement at which you deisre to become quick and smooth, first it must be done more slowly, smooth and correctly and the speed will follow. With a lowering of the Drag factor. It is common for people to feel they can pull harder at a High DF, but that is only because they have not learned to accomplish the coordinated Drive quickly, I can assure you that plently of handle pressure cna be accomplished at the lowest Drag if things are being done well.<br /><br />There does need to be some caution with the High DF's, since the potential for "shock" to the body is greater when the flywheel slows so dramatically during the recovery. <br />

[[old] Cran]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Since the Flywheel will be moving much slower it is easier to work on getting an early connection </td></tr></table><br />hmmmm.... surely if you want to <b>'work on getting an early connection'</b> you'd set the drag lower so that it's harder to get an early connection... <br /><br />

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-Cran+May 18 2005, 09:04 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Cran @ May 18 2005, 09:04 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Since the Flywheel will be moving much slower it is easier to work on getting an early connection </td></tr></table><br />hmmmm.... surely if you want to <b>'work on getting an early connection'</b> you'd set the drag lower so that it's harder to get an early connection... <br /><br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Yep, but you have to know what it's like to get the connection, before you can do that work on it.... <br /><br />Train hard, race easy....

[[old] michael]

I use the damper setting 10 exclusively for all my rowing sessions in the (possibly mistaken) belief that when I attempt a PB and shift it down to 3 or 4 I've taken advantage of the extra strength/stamina I've supposedly attained in using the higher setting over the many weeks and months. Sort of a "this seems alot easier, so now I can pull alot harder and faster" approach. It appears to work, but now I'm not so sure it's productive. Please provide feedback--thanks.<br /><br />Michael

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-michael+May 19 2005, 08:27 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(michael @ May 19 2005, 08:27 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I use the damper setting 10 exclusively for all my rowing sessions in the (possibly mistaken) belief that when I attempt a PB and shift it down to 3 or 4 I've taken advantage of the extra strength/stamina I've supposedly attained in using the higher setting over the many weeks and months.  Sort of a "this seems alot easier, so now I can pull alot harder and faster" approach.  It appears to work, but now I'm not so sure it's productive.  Please provide feedback--thanks.<br /><br />Michael <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Nope, in fact it would be exactly the other way around (not an unusual thing when dealing with a sport in which we travel backwards).<br /><br />Try this: Break your normal longer steady state row into 10 equal intervals with minimum rest periods to allow you to change the damper from 10 to 1 (or back again) and then get right back on pace. Alternate DF for each interval and see which is harder by the end of the workout. Of course you must keep rate and pace the same to have some form of control on the experiment.<br /><br />Have fun....

[[old] Godfried]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+May 19 2005, 06:48 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ May 19 2005, 06:48 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Try this:  Break your normal longer steady state row into 10 equal intervals with minimum rest periods to allow you to change the damper from 10 to 1 (or back again) and then get right back on pace.  Alternate DF for each interval and see which is harder by the end of the workout.  Of course you must keep rate and pace the same to have some form of control on the experiment.<br /><br />Have fun....  <br /> </td></tr></table> This is going to hurt.<br /><br />To quote Carole : WEG ( Wicked Evil Grin )

[[old] John Rupp]

Micheal,<br /><br />That's a good idea, though I'd mix it with your regular drag factor.<br /><br />At times I have done the first 1/2 or 1/3 of my rowing (or warmup) at the highest df, and then the regular one for the rest of the session. For example, 200 and then 80. The higher df does help to warm up the muscles, and also takes some of the tension from the nerves. Thus it's a trade off, however, and most of the time I just keep the df in line with the speed and event that I'm aiming for.

[[old] Byron Drachman]

In the 3 x 6 cardio workout DVD by Xeno Muller, Xeno and Lucas average a 1:38.9 pace during the last 6 minutes, while their stroke rates are 22 for the first two minutes, 24 for the second two minutes, 26 for the fifth minute, and 28 for the sixth minute. Their damper settings are set at one, so yes it appears you can apply a lot of power with low damper settings. To be more accurate, it appears they can apply a lot of power with a low damper setting. I wish I could.<br /><br />Byron

[[old] runningun]

Getting back to Doczoc's question, here are a some facts I've picked up on the boards:<br />1. The lower drag factors simulate a racing shell; the higher drag factors a row-boat. -- this should help understand that, unlike weightlifting, heavier is NOT better.<br />2. The world champion sculler (in 2003, 2004?) both indoors and on water was 6'7" and weighed about 240 lbs, used a drag factor of about 90 (which would be a damper setting of about 2). In other words, he generated power through speed and timing rather than brute force, even at 240 lbs.<br />3. My personal interpretation of all this, and my experience, is that the lower drag factors take pressure off the lower back (helping to avoid back strain) and the muscular system, and put pressure on the cardiovascular system. (This is basically what Lance Armstrong does with his high pedal cadence: his use of a high gear helps save muscles from strain, but it uses more oxygen, etc.) It follows that the ADVANTAGE of this is that your cardio system (a ) can be developed substantially more than your muscular system; and (b ) the benefits of a highly developed cardio system can be applied to much of everday livijng, which a highly develope muscular system is of only occasional use.<br />4. It also appears to me that it is possible to ROW LONGER at a lower drag factor (and at the same meters/500), so it's better for (a ) setting personal records; and (b ) burning calories (because you can row longer).<br />5. Finally, drag factor, SPM and ratio of drive to recovery, are a little like salt: you tend to like what you're used to, and you can change what you're used to. It's definitely worth taking a few months to see how you can do with (a ) a drag factor of about 100 (damper about 2-1/2); (b ) SPM of between 20 and 22 for longer pieces, 24 or so for 4 minutes, and over 24 only for pieces of 2 min or less; and (c ) a drive/recovery ratio of 1 to 2 or even 1 to 3. Try doing some rows over 5k using these settings: you'll get the workout of your life.<br /> Good luck. Bert<br />

[[old] michael]

Thanks for all the responses. I think I'll experiment a bit more with the DF and damper settings. It's interesting that Lance Armstrong was brought up because in bicycle charity rides that I compete in I tend to ride more like his nemesis, Jan Ullrich, who favors larger gears. I've carried this line of thought over to the rower, habitually using damper settings 8-10.