On The Virtue Of Rowing Strapless

[[old] rick-the-chemist]

<!--QuoteBegin-Mel Harbour+Feb 12 2005, 12:52 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Mel Harbour @ Feb 12 2005, 12:52 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-hwt+Feb 11 2005, 08:40 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(hwt @ Feb 11 2005, 08:40 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hi Lisa<br /><br />Pulling yourself forward with your heels might get you up to the catch but would defeat the purpose of  rowing strapless in the first place.  Try to think of using your hip flexors and hamstrings and just concentrate on keeping your feet flat on the plate. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />The advice to use your hip flexors on the recovery is actually totally against what was being suggested at the GB coaching conference a couple of weeks ago. They cited use of the hip flexors to achieve body rock as being a technical fault. You need to aim to use your transversus abdominus (lower abs) instead.<br /><br />Mel <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Interesting point mel. I think my hip flexor injury may be caused by using them instead of lower abs.<br /><br />Rick<br />

[[old] Mark Keating]

<!--QuoteBegin-Mel Harbour+Feb 12 2005, 05:52 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Mel Harbour @ Feb 12 2005, 05:52 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />The advice to use your hip flexors on the recovery is actually totally against what was being suggested at the GB coaching conference a couple of weeks ago.  They cited use of the hip flexors to achieve body rock as being a technical fault.  You need to aim to use your transversus abdominus (lower abs) instead.<br /><br />Mel <br /> </td></tr></table><br />I have been suffering some slight pain in my hip flexors for the last little while as well. I have been blaming it on the little bit of XC skiing that I have done, but I have also been trying to lengthen my erg stroke a bit with slightly more lean and quicker hands at the finish. I will try concentrating on an ab-based recovery and see what happens.<br /><br />Mark

[[old] Mark Keating]

<!--QuoteBegin-aaron_cody+Feb 17 2005, 01:25 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(aaron_cody @ Feb 17 2005, 01:25 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />i'm having a hard time seeing how people can have effective workouts like this...<br />is this normal? does it get better with practice? <br /> </td></tr></table><br />It definitely takes some time aaron. Don't expect to master a new stroke in your first session or two, some patience is required. Concentrate on pushing strong with your legs at the catch and don't even think about using your hands until they have passed your knees as you slide back. Your legs should be fully straightened before you complete the drive with your hands.<br /><br />Mark

[[old] busterG]

if straps weren't required, you wouldn't find them in rowing boats. I can ride my bike with no hands but that doesn't mean its a good idea..<br /> <br />

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-busterG+Mar 9 2005, 02:45 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(busterG @ Mar 9 2005, 02:45 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->if straps weren't required, you wouldn't find them in rowing boats. I can ride my bike with no hands but that doesn't mean its a good idea..<br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Is an Erg the equivalent of a Rowing boat? Or maybe you meant rowing shell, as I've seen many rowing boats that have no straps for your feet and don't even have seats that move. <br /><br />Anyone, regardless of their experience or expertise, is allowed to post to this forum. Is that a good idea? I think so, it's always fun to see the far ranging analogies that are brought into play rather than simply saying, "I can't do it very well, so nobody else should bother." It's just too bad that the facts and evidence bear out the benefits of strapless training on the Erg. There is even some usefulness to be had in a boat, though that's a whole different exercise, adn considerably more difficult.<br /><br />Train hard, race easy.

[[old] nkoffler]

Aaron-<br /><br />Don't be discouraged. Rowing strapless take a while to acheive but is definitely worth it. When I started, I did warm-ups and cools downs strapless. Later I would do whole pieces that way. You'll get it eventually. Focus on the leg drive and do not pull with your arms until your legs are straight. Recover in reverse sequence and don't rush. You should look at the technique video (on VHS or the C2 website). Those models do not need the straps.<br /><br />For Paul, <br /><br />I don't read your take on slides that often as compared to strapless. Is that because of the fact that few ergers have slides or is there something else? I am using slides exclusively now and still erg strapless for warm-up/cool down and other times. I find that the straps make little difference on slides.<br /><br />Neil<br />M/LW/US/38

[[old] neilb]

<!--QuoteBegin-busterG+Mar 9 2005, 05:45 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(busterG @ Mar 9 2005, 05:45 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I can ride my bike with no hands but that doesn't mean its a good idea..<br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />... unless I want to learn to balance on it. (Which for serious cyclists is actually useful at times.)<br /><br />Neil B.

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-nkoffler+Mar 10 2005, 09:13 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(nkoffler @ Mar 10 2005, 09:13 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->For Paul, <br /><br />I don't read your take on slides that often as compared to strapless.  Is that because of the fact that few ergers have slides or is there something else?  I am using slides exclusively now and still erg strapless for warm-up/cool down and other times.  I find that the straps make little difference on slides.<br /><br />Neil<br />M/LW/US/38 <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I like slides a lot, and use them nearly all the time. As long as S10PS is maintianed, there is no "illusion of progress" caused by the natural inclination of trading rate for pace when on slides. Slides do not punish a poor recovery as being on the ground does, so particular attention does need to be maintained with regard to that so we don't get lazy and start recovering poorly. A quick check to see if this is happening is to put your Erg back on the ground and see how different it feels, if it's none or not much, then your recovery is probably okay. if the catch feels very heavy or sluggish, the last part of the recovery is being rushed.<br /><br />Indeed, straps become even more superfluous when on slides, partly due to the quicker engagement at the catch (easier on slides) and the other part due to the bungee being able to accelerate the Mass of the Erg more quicky than it can accelerate the Mass of our body.<br /><br />As far as which might be more useful for training water rowers, it's a wash, since that all depends on what the rower is capable of paying attention to and causing positive adaptations. I think it's more likely for the Erg on Slides to be abused, just as being in a boat is, at least when on a ground bound Erg you are being punished for bad technical errors, and even if you don't know what they are will tend to move in the right direction given enough time and focus on results.

[[old] HeavyPlus]

I am new to rowing & to this forum. This thread is very helpful. Aside from the straps vs. strapless, the advice on technique is exactly what I've been looking for. Mark's words, "legs-body-arms, arms-body-legs", is invaluable to this novice. Honestly, looking at the site video just didn't register in my brain, putting Humpty Dumpty up there, unfortunately, means the same thing. Experienced eyes just see things I don't, in time, perhaps. So thank-you all for your helpful words.<br /><br />That said, I'm looking for more advice off topic. I discovered my legs for the first time at my last workout, that I needed to find them hadn't occured to me until reading in this forum. To say the least it has changed things! To the good, my best effort on a 30 minute piece jumped 200m! I'm up to a whopping 6677m, at a 2.14.9 pace with a 21spm!?! To the difficult, I can't catch my breath. I need two full breaths before I am ready to pull again. I would like to continue in this manner, but I'm not sure it is best. My damper setting is at 10, just luck (good or bad I'll leave to you). I fear I have been making this much beloved sport into some 'weird weightlifting' event, unintentionally of course. I do, seriously, enjoy the increase in strength & muscle mass!?!<br /><br />I work out 3 days a week, every other day. I couldn't pull this hard if I were rowing everyday. I have a lot of weight to loose, hence HeavyPlus, but I do want to compete at some point. Just for the record, 44, 6"2, 284lbs. <br /><br />Thanks for you thoughts,<br />Don<br /><br />p.s. taking this off to another thread wouldn't offend me in the least.

[[old] michaelb]

<!--QuoteBegin-HeavyPlus+Mar 17 2005, 05:56 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(HeavyPlus @ Mar 17 2005, 05:56 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My damper setting is at 10, just luck (good or bad I'll leave to you). </td></tr></table><br /><br />Well I think the obvious first thing to try is to lower the damper to 5 or 3. Some people think it is easier to work your way down slowly, but since you are fairly new, I would just knock it down all at once. It will take some getting use to how that feels. If you are rowing strapless, that is a good start, and I would keep your rating in the 21-23 range (even with the lower damper) and work up to the same power you are producing now. Your strokes should be quicker, smoother, and less work than what you are doing now.<br /><br />For weight loss, 3 times a week for 30 minutes is good, but I am sorry to say that it may not be enough. I would try to work up your times a bit (up to 10k, then up to an hour) and try to mix in those longer workouts too.<br />

[[old] Ducatista]

I decided to give strapless a go, but was stymied by this: how in the world do I keep my heels from pulling me back? The heel sling thing grabs my foot despite my best efforts not to use it — my feet slide down into it no matter how low I set it. I tried taking the damn thing off but was unsuccessful. <br /><br />I never liked that heel sling. I miss the Model B footplate, two chunks of wood. Very comfy for sock-footed rowing. The C, not so much.

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-Ducatista+Mar 18 2005, 08:58 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Ducatista @ Mar 18 2005, 08:58 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I decided to give strapless a go, but was stymied by this: how in the world do I keep my heels from pulling me back? The heel sling thing grabs my foot despite my best efforts not to use it — my feet slide down into it no matter how low I set it. I tried taking the damn thing off but was unsuccessful. <br /><br />I never liked that heel sling. I miss the Model B footplate, two chunks of wood. Very comfy for sock-footed rowing. The C, not so much. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Just let your heels sit there, if you are in Socks, swing slings will make it more comfortable (see link below if you want more info on Swing Slings). There will not be an absence of any pulling on the stretcher, though there can be, but rather an absence of a very concious effort to pull on the stretcher when strapless, either to stopp you at the finish, or to get you started back to the catch. Trying to hold your feet above the heel cups would not make for a very relaxed effort, gravity is working against you.

[[old] TRIBUM]

So what your all saying is you don't need strap-ons?

[[old] Ducatista]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just let your heels sit there, if you are in Socks, swing slings will make it more comfortable (see link below if you want more info on Swing Slings).  There will not be an absence of any pulling on the stretcher, though there can be, but rather an absence of a very concious effort to pull on the stretcher when strapless, either to stopp you at the finish, or to get you started back to the catch. </td></tr></table><br />Thanks, Paul! I'm going to make myself a set of swing slings. It bugs me having to shoe up to row.<br /><br />I think rowing in socks might help with the heel pulling, though it sounds as if what I really need is more focus, practice, and patience. I knew it.

[[old] sharp_rower]

I did an 8k yesterday (31:02.0 = 1:56.4) after 4 or 5 days of no erging at all (before that I rowed on average about 8k every day for about 30 days), and with about 2k left, each time I was braking I could feel pain in my hip flexors. I was tempted to stop, but ergers don't stop! I wonder if the pain is due to excessive use of the straps to brake, or simply overexposure. I don't know.<br /><br />Best 8k: 30:30.9 (1:54.4).