The Road To Sub 6:10

[[old] GeorgeD]

<!--QuoteBegin-GeorgeD+Jan 17 2005, 12:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'><span class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></span> (GeorgeD @ Jan 17 2005, 12:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--> (not directed just at you but at all of us)<br><br>regds George <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><br> Yes it is John as you can see from my origional post I included myself as being far from blameless - you omitted that in you quote from my post unfortuanely.<br><br>George

[[old] John Rupp]

George,<br><br>However, notice you were fortunately not neglected in the body of my message.

[[old] Pete Marston]

rjw - I did the STM phase 1 back when Paul first posted about it on the forum, so it's not that I haven't done that before. The 2 x 5k with 3mins rest that I am doing progressively faster every two days I think is effectively the same as the 8k's of stage 2. I think if anything I am doing it slightly longer term than that was intended. I'm not aiming at an upcoming race, looking much longer term to next season, races in the mean time will not cause a break in the training. I am just doing a 10k on between days as a recovery / technique session. The hope is that the technique improvements couples with fitness increases should allow for me to keep progressing on these sessions for at least a little time. I fully expect not to meet the 2 x 5k targets on odd days, but then to continue to try for them until I can meet them (within the constraints).<br><br>Pete

[[old] ranger]

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'><span class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></span> </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I tend to agree with some of Ranger's comments regarding working on the base-line CV fitness but in the short term I don't think it will do you harm. It is also interesting to remember Ranger's first few months of posting as he now embraces some of the things that he shunned back then.<br><!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><br><br>I wish Pete the best. Just trying to help.<br><br>True. I have changed my tune in various ways. But when I started posting, I was a beginner, something like Pete when he could row 6:32, not when he can row 6:12. My advice now is to the Pete who can row 6:12 (and who wants to go sub-6:10), not to the Pete who could row 6:32.<br><br>The tune of mine that hasn't changed a whit is commitment to the transformational effect of foundational training, and that is most of what I am urging here. <br><br>The tune that has indeed changed is my recent emphasis on technique, and I am indeed urging some of this, too, especially as it interacts with foundational training.<br><br>ranger <br><br><br>

[[old] Pete Marston]

I also have to train within the constraints of the rest of my life. I can't train like a full time athlete, as people like Ranger have time to do. I have a full time job - at times like this more than a full time job. At the moment I'm working outside (trials work testing aircraft escape systems) for over 8 hours a day, 6 to 7 days a week, and it's tiring physical work a lot of the time. I have recently moved into a new house and have a lot of work to do there in the evenings and weekends (when I have them free). I am doing a distance learning qualification at a University. I live with my fiance. On top of all this I have to fit in training. At the moment it's hard to fit in an hour a day for training, but most of the time I can manage it. I'm not at a stage in my life where I can (or would want to) neglect anything else above (fiance, house, work, university, etc).

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin-Pete Marston+Jan 17 2005, 03:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'><span class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></span> (Pete Marston @ Jan 17 2005, 03:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I also have to train within the constraints of the rest of my life. I can't train like a full time athlete, as people like Ranger have time to do. I have a full time job - at times like this more than a full time job. At the moment I'm working outside (trials work testing aircraft escape systems) for over 8 hours a day, 6 to 7 days a week, and it's tiring physical work a lot of the time. I have recently moved into a new house and have a lot of work to do there in the evenings and weekends (when I have them free). I am doing a distance learning qualification at a University. I live with my fiance. On top of all this I have to fit in training. At the moment it's hard to fit in an hour a day for training, but most of the time I can manage it. I'm not at a stage in my life where I can (or would want to) neglect anything else above (fiance, house, work, university, etc).<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><br>Of course.<br><br>You misrepresent my situation, though. I am not at all a full time athlete (although I might indeed train like one), nor am I neglecting the rest of my life. I have a wife, three children, and a demanding career--and I attend to all of them with as much dedication as I attend to my rowing. At the longest, my training in the morning is 4-7 a.m. and my training in the afternoon, 4-6 p.m. <br><br>At most, I spend 5 hours on training. I sleep 6 hours. That leaves 13 hours for other things, four hours in the evening and nine hours in the middle of the day. This is plenty of time to attend to my life.<br><br>In terms of my life, my advantages over most, I guess, is that I have almost no commute. I can workout right where I work (or row on the water right where I live). I can work at home 4-5 days out of the week. I have complete job security (tenure). And I have a wife who is at home most of the time, too. I now also have only one child at home, and she will be 19 next month; my other two children (ages 21 and 19) are away at college.<br><br>I also have a very successful careeer and a very supportive, congenial, placid, and satisfying home life. These help a ton.<br><br>ranger<br>

[[old] rick-the-chemist]

Isn't this thread supposed to be abouts pete's road to sub 6:10? Lets get it back on track...<br><br>Rick

[[old] rjw]

<!--QuoteBegin-Pete Marston+Jan 17 2005, 08:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'><span class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></span> (Pete Marston @ Jan 17 2005, 08:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--> rjw - I did the STM phase 1 back when Paul first posted about it on the forum, so it's not that I haven't done that before. The 2 x 5k with 3mins rest that I am doing progressively faster every two days I think is effectively the same as the 8k's of stage 2. I think if anything I am doing it slightly longer term than that was intended. I'm not aiming at an upcoming race, looking much longer term to next season, races in the mean time will not cause a break in the training. I am just doing a 10k on between days as a recovery / technique session. The hope is that the technique improvements couples with fitness increases should allow for me to keep progressing on these sessions for at least a little time. I fully expect not to meet the 2 x 5k targets on odd days, but then to continue to try for them until I can meet them (within the constraints).<br><br>Pete <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><br> Pete, I agree with you and your assessment that this program will help improve overall fitness. It is very difficult to "cheat" this when you are rowing S10PS. I rowed a PB on this method without many of the 2 x 4k sessions.<br><br>Will be interested as to how you make out with your rowing.<br><br>Raoul

[[old] rjw]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Jan 17 2005, 08:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'><span class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></span> (ranger @ Jan 17 2005, 08:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'><span class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></span> </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I tend to agree with some of Ranger's comments regarding working on the base-line CV fitness but in the short term I don't think it will do you harm. It is also interesting to remember Ranger's first few months of posting as he now embraces some of the things that he shunned back then.<br><!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><br><br>I wish Pete the best. Just trying to help.<br><br>True. I have changed my tune in various ways. But when I started posting, I was a beginner, something like Pete when he could row 6:32, not when he can row 6:12. My advice now is to the Pete who can row 6:12 (and who wants to go sub-6:10), not to the Pete who could row 6:32.<br><br>The tune of mine that hasn't changed a whit is commitment to the transformational effect of foundational training, and that is most of what I am urging here. <br><br>The tune that has indeed changed is my recent emphasis on technique, and I am indeed urging some of this, too, especially as it interacts with foundational training.<br><br>ranger <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><br> Ranger,<br><br>I was looking at the transition over the years as a positive and am looking at your current regime in the same light. <br><br>Raoul

[[old] rjw]

<!--QuoteBegin-Pete Marston+Jan 17 2005, 08:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'><span class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></span> (Pete Marston @ Jan 17 2005, 08:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I live with my fiance. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><br>Congratulations!<br><br>I believe that the program that you are on will help to maximize your returns with the time you have.<br><br>Raoul

[[old] Pete Marston]

Ok then, back to the training I'm doing, and how I'm finding it. I have discovered, I think, a problem that I really knew I had in my technique. My technique is very leg dominant, overly so perhaps. I don't think I've been engaging my arms quite early enough in the stroke (only fractionally mind). The reason I think this, is that during my 2 x 5k yesterday I was experimenting with starting the arm pull slightly earlier, and this just about eliminated the bum ache I was getting from the strapless rowing, and also made it much easier to finish the drive with my feet still firmly planted on the foot plates (the two are connected I think - the bum ache and good finish to the stroke, rather than the feet and footplates..). I know what I meant to be doing before, and that is beginning the arm movement at such time to maintain the same pressure on the handle throughout the stroke - ie when the power from the legs starts to drop off. I think I was leaving it a little too late though, and the strapless rowing has highlighted this is that I'm now having to use my glutes and hamstrings to stop my backward motion, rather than having some assistance from the footstraps before. What I should be doing is using the force on the handle to do this.

[[old] Pete Marston]

I'm also at a bit of a sticking point on the 2 x 5k (3mins rest) already. I think more because I've been tired the last two attempts, but whatever the reason I have twice failed to meet my current target of 1:47.0 / 1:46.0. First time I stopped after 1700m on the second rep, and yesterday I slowed down for the middle 2k on the second rep, but completed it in an average of 1:47.4 (after a 1:47.0 first rep). Partly this is mental, as I've never been good (and haven't really done) long rep sessions with a short rest. Partly it is still getting used to the strapless technique, but part must be also due to a slight lack of fitness at the moment. Though I stop and don't really feel physically tired. This shouldn't be hard though, and I need to tell myself this, as my 10k best is a 1:43 split! Ok, so this is strapped in, but I'm hoping to come to a point where that won't make a different on these distances and paces. I have two choice (I will discuss with Paul which to go with) - I attempt the same 2 x 5k target again, or I go to his alternate method of spending a couple of these sessions doing single 6k's at faster targets (1:46, 1:45 etc) then go back to this 2 x 5k target.<br>I also have to decide whether I should alter my training at all as I'm now going to race in Manchester on 13th Feb.

[[old] Rocket Roy]

Pete are these 2 x 5k's at free unrestricted rate's?<br><br>Where did you get 3 mins rest from ? Is this enough to allow enough recovery? How much is your 1.47 above your 5k pb split?

[[old] PaulS]

Pete is just a really aggressive trainer, when we first were discussing this the 5k's were to have "plenty of rest" between them, and my impression was that he was going to be doing them in 2 different sessions during the day rather than 1. 3 minutes is very short, and if he continues to plan the single daily session I would suggest moving them to a 2 x 4k x 3 min, or the single 6k mentioned.<br><br>S10PS controls the rate based on the pace target.

[[old] Coach Gus]

<!--QuoteBegin-Pete Marston+Jan 18 2005, 04:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'><span class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></span> (Pete Marston @ Jan 18 2005, 04:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I also have to decide whether I should alter my training at all as I'm now going to race in Manchester on 13th Feb. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><br> Listen to your coach.