Leg Connnection At The Catch

[[old] anthony]

hey all,<br /><br />Ok I realise that this is not stricitly erg related but I'm sure some of you guys could help me.At the moment I am stroking the the second novice boat in my club.However I beat half the guys in the first boat 20 min erg split with my 60min erg split(1:50.3).My coach says if I could get my connection with thelegs going I would be stroking the first boat.Can anybody help me?It's annoying me so much I can't get asleep at night.<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Anto

[[old] starboardrigged1seat]

It sounds like you have a pretty bad coach if he's letting someone like you sit in the second boat. First of all, I'd recommend leaving what happens on the water on the water -- there's no reason that what boat you row on should keep you up at night. There are really no drills you can do in the boat independent of what everybody else is doing, but there are some you can do on the erg. Try rowing legs only with your normal drag factor. Really focus on locking your body angle before you start coming up the slide, and forcing your legs down <i>quickly</i>. Gradually reduce the drag factor until it's as low as it will go. Continue rowing legs only, trying to apply power as quickly as possible. Drape a towel over the fan, and continue to work on engaging the legs quickly. On your steady state pieces, try getting comfortable working with lower drag factors (110, preferably for rowing an 8 at speed). Some strapless rowing won't hurt, either.

[[old] PaulS]

Anto,<br /><br />Novices tend to "row in" and that prevents a good connection through the drive, get the catch right and you will get moved up quickly.<br /><br />It's as simple as placing the blade in the water an instant prior to initiating the leg drive. Some of my rowers found it helpful to think of the placement of the blade in the water as the last thing they do on the recovery (instead of "the first thing done on the drive"), yeah, I know it's the same place in the stroke but the subtle differences count.<br /><br />Try to get a feel for your time on the drive and the pressure that you are putting on the handle, if you think you are getting a lot of handle pressure, but at the same time not in the water as long as others, you are wasting your effort in pushing water about rather than moving the boat along.<br /><br />To summarize: Blade in the water, drive hard, as quickly and smoothly as possible; release, recover, repeat.

[[old] Cassiopeia]

I found a wonderful guide to the technique in rowing- maybe it will have something for you?<br /><br /><a href='http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~socs285/articles.html' target='_blank'>Article: Rowing Technique</a>

[[old] jamesg]

When your coach says "get your connection with the legs going" he's probably trying to avoid such Anglosaxon terms as bum-shoving. Always read between the lines, it's much more interesting.<br />Of course strokes need to have perfect rhythm, tactics and technique. They also have to learn to sleep at nights whatever is said or happens.

[[old] AceRothstein]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Feb 19 2005, 03:14 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Feb 19 2005, 03:14 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anto,<br /><br />It's as simple as placing the blade in the water an instant prior to initiating the leg drive.  Some of my rowers found it helpful to think of the placement of the blade in the water as the last thing they do on the recovery (instead of "the first thing done on the drive"), yeah, I know it's the same place in the stroke but the subtle differences count.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />What he said. Plus, think QUICK, SMOOTH hands at the catch, and though you're slow to get there, once at the catch, DO NOT HANG. Quick, smooth with the hands, LOCK and LOAD the legs. Make sure you don't drop your hands at the catch, or you're bound to "row in". Also, peek at your blade, and look for a bit of a "v" splash.<br /><br />This is all stuff coach should be telling you, and if you're holding a 1:50 split for 60 minutes, it should be worth his time to snap some video of you to help trouble shoot. Better yet, why doesn't he put you in the 6 seat of the 1st boat, assuming the stroke there has this figured out, you should be able to get it by matching?<br /><br />Remember, the boat is slowest when you arrive at the catch, so quickly and smoothly get the blade in the water, and crack the legs down. At stroke, this is most critical, since if you hang or falter at the catch, so will the 7 others following. <br />

[[old] Cran]

Get yourself video'd and you will see what you are doing right/wrong<br /><br />- fast hands away at finish (get the arms straight)<br />- keep arms straight<br />- watch the blade height (keep it 2" off the water when squared)<br />- square early (as you come over the knees start squaring, so you are square before 1/2 slide)<br />- place the blade by just gently lifting hands as still coming forwards (keep the arms straight)<br />- push the footplate away with the legs (don't pull the handle, just hang off it)<br />- get the hands in and out smoothly at the finish<br /><br />make yourself available to sub in the first boat, but don't expect to be stroking it, or even rowing in it regularaly until you get the technique sorted.<br /><br />But there's no reason why you can't sort it quickly if you put the time in.<br /><br />Rowing feet out on the erg also helps imo.<br />As does getting out in a tub, so see if any of the 1st crew will go out in a tub with you.<br /><br />Suggest to your coach that he gets the crew doing lots of legs only rowing, and lots of square blade work. <br /><br />Get yourself video'd so you can see for yourself what you are doing right/wrong.

[[old] Mel Harbour]

<!--QuoteBegin-Cran+Feb 21 2005, 04:58 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Cran @ Feb 21 2005, 04:58 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Get yourself video'd and you will see what you are doing right/wrong<br /><br />- fast hands away at finish (get the arms straight)<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I've said it before, but I tend to disagree with this. In my experience people generally have more problems a) finishing the drive off and finding the boatspeed on the recovery, both of which tend to be made worse by people trying to move the hands away quickly.<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- watch the blade height (keep it 2" off the water when squared)<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />As a slight tweak, I'd say to make the handle move like a dish on the recovery (down at first, then flat, then up again into the catch.<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- square early (as you come over the knees start squaring, so you are square before 1/2 slide)<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I'd go for a little bit later (ankles?), but definitely thinking about 'rolling' square, not 'flicking' square.<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- place the blade by just gently lifting hands as still coming forwards (keep the arms straight)<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />It needs to be a relaxed movement, but it does need to be basically as quick as you can do (which I think may be not quite suggested by the word 'gently').<br /><br />Mel

[[old] Cran]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In my experience people generally have more problems a) finishing the drive off and  finding the boatspeed on the recovery, both of which tend to be made worse by people trying to move the hands away quickly </td></tr></table><br />I agree there is an optimum, but I think novices tend to be too slow rather than too fast. Same speed out as in is probably as fast as it needs to be.<br /><br />I'd rather be telling someone to slow down than speed up the hands, but it's not a situation I've been in yet <br /><br />the rock over and slide are slower, as the mass you are moving is bigger, I find if people don't get the arms away reasonably quick then they often don't get them straight either and then try to take the catch with bent arms. I guess speed is relative, so my fast may not be far off your slow, or it could be miles apart.<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It needs to be a relaxed movement, but it does need to be basically as quick as you can do (which I think may be not quite suggested by the word 'gently'). </td></tr></table><br />Totally agree, my wording didn't emphasise the quickness required. You have to let the blade go in quickly as opposed to try and make it go in quickly.<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'd go for a little bit later (ankles?), but definitely thinking about 'rolling' square, not 'flicking' square. </td></tr></table><br />Tell novices to square at the knees, and they will still only start to square at 3/4 slide, if you are lucky... Ankles is fine as long as they get squared up before the catch and don't go in at 45 degrees or miss the catch and go in square by missing half the drive. Once you can get fast clean catches you can probably square a bit later. But you need to get people to experience some good catches first to know what they feel like and I think squaring early is better than missing the catches.

[[old] Mel Harbour]

<!--QuoteBegin-Cran+Feb 21 2005, 10:40 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Cran @ Feb 21 2005, 10:40 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In my experience people generally have more problems a) finishing the drive off and  finding the boatspeed on the recovery, both of which tend to be made worse by people trying to move the hands away quickly </td></tr></table><br />I agree there is an optimum, but I think novices tend to be too slow rather than too fast. Same speed out as in is probably as fast as it needs to be.<br /><br />I'd rather be telling someone to slow down than speed up the hands, but it's not a situation I've been in yet <br /><br />the rock over and slide are slower, as the mass you are moving is bigger, I find if people don't get the arms away reasonably quick then they often don't get them straight either and then try to take the catch with bent arms. I guess speed is relative, so my fast may not be far off your slow, or it could be miles apart.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I suspect my slow is still slower than your fast! <br /><br />One of the best exercises I've come across for building co-ordination and feeling is to do 'cutting the cake' to 1/4 slide <i>as slowly as possible</i> to 1/4 slide and back, then moving pretty freely on the second half of the recovery. 1/4 slide is good, as you've just unlocked the knees, but should be fully extended, with the hands having moved well away from the body as the body rocks over. It also covers all the key points where crew co-ordination normally falls apart (start of body movement, start of slide). To do it well requires a large amount of send on the finish, followed by a strong core to support during the precise movements.<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It needs to be a relaxed movement, but it does need to be basically as quick as you can do (which I think may be not quite suggested by the word 'gently'). </td></tr></table><br />Totally agree, my wording didn't emphasise the quickness required. You have to let the blade go in quickly as opposed to try and make it go in quickly.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Again, I'd go further and say that it needs to be a relaxed movement, but must be an active lifting of the hands. If it's totally passive, it's just too slow.<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'd go for a little bit later (ankles?), but definitely thinking about 'rolling' square, not 'flicking' square. </td></tr></table><br />Tell novices to square at the knees, and they will still only start to square at 3/4 slide, if you are lucky... Ankles is fine as long as they get squared up before the catch and don't go in at 45 degrees or miss the catch and go in square by missing half the drive. Once you can get fast clean catches you can probably square a bit later. But you need to get people to experience some good catches first to know what they feel like and I think squaring early is better than missing the catches. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />In other words what square blades is for. It's a catch exercise not a finish exercise really!<br /><br />Mel

[[old] blue87]

There is an excersise for practicing the catch. Come to front stops, and place the blade in the water square, then use the arms to place the blade in and keep it going in and out.<br /><br />Then rowin with straight arms from the catch use only a few inches on the slide.<br /><br />Also do some roll ups - sit at backstops. and take a stroke except when you place the blade at the catch leave it and dont take the stroke. Then slowly return to back stops. <br /><br />Martin