Ultra Marathon Erging

[old] riverhavoc · Post by **[old] riverhavoc** » December 6th, 2004, 2:54 pm

Ok, guys, this Saturday I am attempting my first 100K row. I have completed two marathons without incident, the last at just under a 2:00/500m split, but need some input from you damaged individuals as I'm sure my strategy will be much different. I plan on rowing a significantly slower pace, eating and drinking much more, and wrapping my seat in bubble wrap and pads. Input always appreciated.

[old] Phillip Smith · Post by **[old] Phillip Smith** » December 6th, 2004, 10:26 pm

Riverhavoc - I completed my first marathon on Sunday. Nothing really to report except for some pain in my left bicept. I would also like to do a 100km in the not too distant future - my question is this: marathon runners are advised to take it easy for a while after they race, now I don't put erging in the same catergory because of the lack of impact - but is it recommended to get straight back into the longer sessions it after a marathon?

[old] J.D. · Post by **[old] J.D.** » December 6th, 2004, 11:51 pm

Riverhavoc and Phillip Smith, Good luck on your 100K challenges! I can tell you that my 100K split was about 15" slower than my marathon time. I had to make one run to the bathroom (about 1.5' lost) and I had to majorly slow down for a while because of muscle cramping due to insufficient sodium intake. Other then that I was rowing the whole time with only 3-10" breaks to eat or drink. I did an erg marathon one week before the 100K but it was only about 95% effort. Probably I shouldn't have done it so close but I really didn't feel that tired. I think if everything had gone perfectly I could have done 100K at marathonRP+12". Remember to start off a little slower than you plan to finish.

[old] DavidA · Post by **[old] DavidA** » December 7th, 2004, 3:30 pm

I have toyed with the idea of trying a 100 km erg sometime, but I don't know how I would ever get permission from SWMBO to take off 8 h. How do others do it?

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » December 8th, 2004, 10:40 am

J.D.-- I gave the 24-hour challenge a go a couple of years ago but couldn't get to the end, so I suppose I am not one to hand out advice. I only got to 167k in 14 hours. Started around 4 a.m. and rowed until dinner time (6 p.m.). For whatever reason, I couldn't hack the last 10 hours, though. I did my rowing in 10k stretches, with a 2-3 minute break at each of these points. Then I took a longer break (a half hour?) for lunch about half the way through. I rowed at about 2:10-2:15 on the lowest drag and at a very high stroke rate (30 spm or so), so I used a _very_ short, light stroke (5 SPI or so). No problem with the rowing. Things went fine. I ate a huge pot of oatmeal along the way and drank water. Both of these were probably mistakes and were probably what did me in. I think I would now drink gatorade (or whatever) and eat powerbars and powergels. If I had it to do again, I think I would also cut out the lunch break and just try to row continuously. If I had it to do again, I might also try to row at 2:00 pace or so and 20 spm (10 SPI), i.e., quite a bit faster and with a much longer and more powerful stroke. Rob Slocum, rowing the Savannah: 2:00 pace for hours and hours. ranger

[old] strez · Post by **[old] strez** » December 8th, 2004, 11:41 am

Although I have never done an erg ultramarathon, I have run over 70 trail and road running ultramarathons over the past decade. Here are some random bits of advice based on my experience for anyone planning a long row. 1. Get rid of the Gatorade and any other sugar-based sport drink. It causes too many energy spikes and bonks. I use almost exclusively Conquest (which can be ordered at 1-800-wesweat), which is a complex carbs-based drink. There are a few other complex carb-based drinks on the market. Such drinks will level out your moods and energy level over the course of the event. 2. Consider taking electrolyte tablets. Ultra endurance athletes often take in too much water which dilutes their electrolyte levels which may lead to hyponatremia. At best, this will cause you extreme discomfort; at worst, a nice long visit in the hospital. I've been in races where runners were airlifted to hospitals in critical condition because of hyponatremia. Even if you ingest nothing but sports drinks, you will likely still come up short on electrolytes if you're a sweater. I typically take one e-tab and hour during races or long training runs. Information on these products can be found at <a href='http://www.e-caps.com/' target='_blank'>http://www.e-caps.com/</a>. It's imperative you learn to balance your liquids with your electrolytes. 3. Eating is essential, obviously. But studies I have read have shown that your body can only absorb perhaps 300 or so calories per hour (depending on the person), although you are using many more. Therefore, fat-burning is the primary form of energy in ultra events. Your training regime should teach your body to burn fats over a long period of time. As a corollary, it is not necessary to overeat for this reason. 4. You may want to consider getting a good scale and weighing yourself during an erg ultramarathon at regular intervals - perhaps every hour or so. This will show if you are dehydrated (if your body weight drops by more than 5 percent, for example) or hyponatremic (where you may actually experience weight gain from drinking too much water). Most 100-mile trail runs require runners to weigh in every ten miles or so, and a 10-percent drop in body weight will cause runners to be pulled from the race. Once, 85 miles into a 100-mile trail race, my body weight was up five pounds from the start of the race. Meds there thought I was doing well eating and drinking a lot. Turned out I was in a state of hyponatremia. I passed out in the middle of the woods one mile later and woke up in a medical tent. When you start doing long endurance events, you gotta take that stuff seriously. 5. Don't just stick to carbs during your ultra events. You also need to ingest fats, which drive the fat burning process. In his book Slow Burn, world class ultrarunner Stu Mittleman (an expert at six-day races) wonderfully discusses the physiology of eating for endurance athletes. I eat lots of nuts and almond butter during ultras. Yogurts and ice cream work well, too.

[old] J.D. · Post by **[old] J.D.** » December 10th, 2004, 2:19 am

Ranger, relating your experience is very helpful because it shows me that I can't slough off the refueling and it reminds me to respect the challenge I'm taking on. Strez, thanks also for your pointers. I don't seem to have any problem with Gatorade but I do try to get most of my other carbs in a complex form during my long sessions and I do go for some fat and protein. I haven't tried e-tabs yet but I think I will try them since I had trouble with cramping when I did 100K a few years ago. I haven't heard of the 300cal/hr limit on intake before but that sounds about how much I manage to take in and I really can't seem to make myself eat much more. I do weigh myself periodically. I've never gained weight from drinking too much but I sometimes lose up to 2kg over 5-6 hours which I can't allow to continue over 24 hours. Cheers

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » December 11th, 2004, 11:40 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Ranger, relating your experience is very helpful because it shows me that I can't slough off the refueling and it reminds me to respect the challenge I'm taking on.  </td></tr></table> Good luck with it. Yea, I had no other problems, really; I just ran out of fuel. ranger

[old] J.D. · Post by **[old] J.D.** » December 30th, 2004, 3:40 pm

Did a 12 hr workout yesterday. I took my erg over to a friend's place (I'm house sitting) and realized that I didn't bring enough of the right food and fluid but reached my goal for the day anyway. I biked 6 hrs on Monday and erged 40k Tuesday so I was not fully rested. Last night I felt like "Oh God! How am I going to keep going twice as long next month" but toady I feel good and I just keep reminding myself that I am still getting fitter ever week.

[old] grandslam · Post by **[old] grandslam** » December 30th, 2004, 8:39 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (strez @ Dec 8 2004, 08:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>1. Get rid of the Gatorade and any other sugar-based sport drink. It causes too many energy spikes and bonks. I use almost exclusively Conquest (which can be ordered at 1-800-wesweat), which is a complex carbs-based drink. </td></tr></table> I completed the Grandslam of ultra running two years ago (four 100 mile races; each about 3 weeeks apart) and was the second person ever to complete the Badwater 135, solo and unaided last summer (carried all supplies start to finish). Strez offers good advice right down the line. Hammergel is another complex carb gel I've had success with, but you will find later in the event, carbs alone are not enough. I find for me the gels (forget gatoriad) are good for about 8 hours depending on the temperature, then I need fats. Cheese works well for me, but you need to experiment. Electrolyte caps are essential. I don't know how you would finish without them, because your body will deplete your sodium supply over such a long distance, then here come the cramps. I'd be happy to share advice if you want to e-mail me, and we could talk on the phone. I am planning a 100K shot at the 40-49 record myself in the next month or two (haven't set a date). My biggest concern right now is how to keep my butt alive. Just rowing a marathon gives me severe pain in the ass. I would do the 24 hour with you if we could hook it up on Rowpro . Cheers, Jeff Sauter runultras2001@yahoo.com

[old] grandslam · Post by **[old] grandslam** » December 31st, 2004, 12:15 pm

I forgot to add, slimfast cut with water is also a good way to get in quickly digested calories. I've used it alone with no solid foods up to 50 miles. Last night I checked the Rowpro program to see if I could set up a 100K row. It can be done as a custom row as intervals, or as a "quick row" on the internet race page. I set a quick row and sure enough the monitor started counting down from 100,000 and the PM2+ was giving the proper ave splits, projected finish time etc. Stopped after 31K, as I wasn't really prepared to do the whole thing on a whim. So, who's interested in an online row? Cheers, Jeff Sauter

[old] J.D. · Post by **[old] J.D.** » December 31st, 2004, 12:19 pm

Grandslam, Thanks for your input. I've recently started taking a pinch of coarse salt every hour in order to up my sodium. I do drink quite a bit of gatorade and I haven't felt like I've had any bonks as a result. I also drink some milk and eat some fruit which should help keep sugar levels steady. It's always a struggle to eat enough food just because of the stomach bulk. When you increase you fat intake after several hours, approximately how much are you consuming? I sometimes eat some nuts or chocolate (maybe 50g-80g total). As for butt pain, my biggest problem is chafing and I've had good success with vaseline. I usually sit on a folded towel for padding and I set my feet relatively low. Gotta go. You can email me directly at jdrowgymATyahooDOTcom.

[old] DavidA · Post by **[old] DavidA** » February 15th, 2005, 3:09 pm

J.D. How did it go? Or didn't it? Did you complete the 24 hr you were planning to do? David

[old] Byron Drachman · Post by **[old] Byron Drachman** » February 16th, 2005, 1:13 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I'm preparing for a 24 hr (solo) challenge and I'm finding it difficult to eat and drink enough to keep hydrated and fueled for such a long piece. Any advice from ultra marathoners out there? </td></tr></table> I've never done a running ultramarathon, but I'd like to chime in anyway: I imagine you’ve already come across discussions about ultramarathons and renal failure. From what I’ve read, it does occur although it is rare with ultramarathon runners. I mention it because I think once I was close to have the kidneys shut down in a particularly brutal long distance cross country ski race. I don’t know if it has ever happened to a rower. From what I have seen at the ultramarathon running sites, sometimes people don’t know the kidneys are shutting down until after the event. My suggestion would be to listen to take Coach Gus's advice and “listen to your body,” and decide in advance that you will be willing to bail out if things aren’t going well. Good luck in your venture. I hope everything goes well for you. Byron

[old] J.D. · Post by **[old] J.D.** » February 16th, 2005, 1:55 pm

I completed the event two weeks ago with a final distance of 241,749m. As expected, the last 9-10 hrs was miserable but I survived. I managed to raise almost $900CDN for Habitat for Humanity from that event. As for the renal failure issue, I never felt like I had problem that way. I think runners have a problem without it because of all the red blood cells that get destroyed from hours of foot-pounding and that bungs up the kidneys. Since rowing is non-impact there is no RBC destruction and much less muscle damage (which may also overload the blood with free myoglobin). I can't imagine even attempting a 24 hour run.

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