Runner Turned Newbie Rower With 5/10k ?'s

[[old] Blaze]

Hey, wanted to say hello and maybe pick the collective brains for some of you more experienced rower guys/gals. I am a newbie rower, been rowing for 3-4 weeks while recovering from a running related metatarsal stress fx. I am a 42 year old male weighing 145 pounds, and I am 6'2" tall. I am able to pretty consistently turn a 32-33 min 10K time on the roads as a runner, but seem to really be behind the curve as a rower. My 5K row times average about 21:45 while my 10K row times are closer to the 41:30 to 42:00 min range. To have a 10K time better then a 5K time seems to be somewhat discordant to my inexperienced eye, and I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on this. All of my rowing sessions are either 60 mins or 90 mins in length, with my 60 min PR @ 2:05 pace and my 90 min PR @ 2:08 pace, which worked out to a half marathon distance. From my height/weight, I am a fairly light guy and when I rowed my 90 min PR I was really feeling it. Alternatively, I have no problems running a half marathon in the mid 70 min range, but just got spanked on the rower. Perhaps I am expecting too much too soon. Any thoughts on the above are most welcome, and look foward to interacting with all. Cheers.

[[old] grimsby1]

u have good 5k and 10k splits for a newcomer, and i think you are just expecting too much at once. remember that a lot of us rowers have been rowing for a few years, and some of us much longer. you are definatley fit, and you also have great running times. just wait for your times to come down, thats what training is for.

[[old] chickenlegs]

If you keep training hard (often) and well (efficiently) all of your times, on any given distance, will almost certainly improve.<br><br>However, your height:weight ratio is that of a long distance runner (and you are one), not a rower.<br><br>In order to seriously lower your erg times you should increase your muscle mass, but keep in mind that your running times will rise.<br><br>I know of an athlete who dropped about 10 kg of muscle in a couple of years to switch from rowing (2000 Olympics) to competitive triathlon (swimming + cycling + running).<br><br>

[[old] Bayko]

If you are patient the times will come down. Adaptation to a new activity takes longer than 3-4 weeks.<br><br>My running times at age 42 were similar to yours. I took up the erg at age 52 after two and a half years of inactivity and progressed slowly but surely. If you plan to keep doing this after you can return to running (and I'd highly recommed it) you should work on technique now so that when your muscles have fully adapted you can achieve faster times. You will be on a steep learning curve now even with crappy technique but will plateau at a lower level than if your form is correct.<br><br>Unfortunately, in reading through the forum, you will find conflicting advice on what is correct. You will have to either try everything for yourself, using up a lot to time, and decide what is right. Or take a leap of faith and follow one of the programs for an extended period of time. <br><br>Having been at it now for 5 years and reading every post on the fourm during that time, if I could go back and do it again I would start with doing Paul Smith's S10MPS (Strapless 10 meters per stroke). That can get your technique in order faster than anything else barring access to a bona fide rowing coach overlooking your every workout. At first it will feel odd, and your times might be slower for a couple of workouts, but the adaptation comes quickly. Start off with short strokes without your feet in the straps until you get the feel of being in complete control (not falling off the back). As you get the feel for it, lengthen the stroke and speed it up gradually until you are hitting 10 meters per stoke (starting your stoke on the "0" on the monitor, or count 10 strokes per 100 meters).<br><br>I'm also about 145 lbs (142 at the moment) and age 57. After 4 weeks of erging I couldn't even complete a 10km, let alone 90 minutes. My 5km was similar to yours. Now I can do mid-38 10km's. It just took consistent training and time to adapt.<br><br>Rick

[[old] andyArvid]

Blaze,<br><br>Listen to Rick. As a former runner, he knows what he is talking about. There are quite a few former and current runners lurking around here like me. I don't do strapless but I can understand the logic. I prefer to keep my spm between 24-26 but going strapless is worth a try. Given that your pace is fairly consistent up to 90 minutes, better technique will lower your times.<br><br>Also avoid comparing erging times to running times. Although close and similar, there is no real comparison. <br><br>andy

[[old] FrancoisA]

Congratulations for your 10K and 1/2 marathon run times. Here in Ottawa (Canada's Capital) you would be first in your age group in almost all local races! <br>At 145 pounds and 6'2" you have probably a very lean upper body and do not have much strength in pulling.<br><br>I have some questions for you:<br><br>1) What is the lowest number you can get on the erg for three consecutive strokes? (my guess is that it is above 1:36). <br><br>2) What was your average heart rate when you rowed your 10K? My guess is that it is quite low compared to what you achieved in running; <br><br>If I am right on both accounts, it will take some time before you have built enough upper body strength, as well as make the adaptations to raise your lactate threshold, in order to make use of your great cardio engine! Unfortunately, until those changes occur, you are going to loose some of your CV capacity. Also, as mentioned by chickenlegs, the extra weight will make you a slower runner (but nicer looking IMHO!)<br>Concerning training, I would already start doing intervals, since you already have the aerobic base.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Francois Audet

[[old] Blaze]

Thanks for all of your advice and suggestions-much appreciated. I have certainly gained much insight as to the difficult nature of erging, and I have much respect for you athletes. I really would be a satisfied rower if I could eclipse the 15K level for 60 mins, but that seem like a pipe dream at my current PR of 14.4K. I will definitely try to incorporate the strapless technique shortly to see if that makes a difference. Francois-I really don't know what my stroke rate would be on three consecutive pulls, and I have never been a big HR monitoring kinda guy, so unfortunately I really can't address those queries, but I truly appreciate all suggestions. My SPM seems to naturally gravitate to a rate of about 29, and this seems higher then many of the others on this board. I am still a bit perplexed on my 5K/10K disparities in time. Again, thanks for all the sage advice. Cheers.

[[old] gaffano]

Blaze....<br><br>Man some of you guys are skinny! Anyway...I am also feeling some of your frustration. As an experienced road biker, I assumed my aerobic fitness would transfer to rowing. I have been rowing 30-45 minutes about 3 times a week since September. My numbers started out around yours and really have only come down a little in 3 months given my training.<br><br>Just as you would not expect a new runner to achieve your times after a few weeks, you should also not expect to achieve the times of most of the people in this forum who have been rowing consistantly for years.<br><br>For now, ignore others times and work on correct form and just row as much as possible.

[[old] Byron Drachman]

Hi Blaze,<br><br>If you’d like some more encouragement, check out the weight adjustment calculator under training at the home site. For your weight, you can multiply your times by 0.87, so to use an easy number, 2:00 is converted to 1:44 approximately. For somebody who weighs 200 lbs, the factor is 0.94 so 2:00 is converted to 1:59, i.e., there is very little adjustment. I have no idea how accurate these factors are, but the idea is that this reflects the advantage you would have if you were rowing on water. We’re not allowed to use these factors when reporting times, but those factors should make you feel better already.<br><br>Byron<br>

[[old] Byron Drachman]

Oops. Let me correct that error. Someone who weighs 200 lbs would have 2:00 converted to about 1:52, and someone who weighs 145 would have 2:00 converted to about 1:44 or 1:45 approximately. That's still quite an advantage, I imagine.<br><br>Byron

[[old] John Rupp]

Hi Blaze,<br><br>Your 10k being faster makes perfect sense, as it takes longer to warm up for the faster speed of a 5k. You might try doing a 5k to warm up, rest 5 minutes, then do a faster 5k for time.<br><br>It is important to keep up the rating, especially for lighter athletes whose focus is more on fitness, finesse and technique than brute strength. <br><br>However, with your height and thus longer stroke length, you can do well with a lower stroke rate than rowers who do not have the same length of stroke. Long time world record holder Eskild Ebbesen who is 6'2" tall averages 41 spm for a 2k, whereas world class heavyweight rowers have ratings in the range of 33 to 37 spm.<br><br>Thus 33 to 41 is a good range for a 2k, and proportional to this for other speeds (distances).<br><br>Your 29 spm sounds fine for the events you are doing.<br><br>Rowing without straps is instructive for balance, which can be ascertained with a few days or weeks of including this as part of one's training. Of more importance though is to learn and ingrain the correct use of the straps with the toes for recovery. Thus most rowing, and all important rowing, should be done with the straps.<br><br>Cheers.<br>