Measuing Metres Per Stroke (mps)

[old] Great Dane · Post by **[old] Great Dane** » November 23rd, 2004, 10:37 am

I'm new to the rowing and erging. I just took up kayaking (K1) and thought a winter of erging would be good training - and would not what little kayaking technique I have developed. I have been reading many posts and have seen much discussion about rowing at 7 metres per stroke and 10 mps (7 mps / 10 mps). I have a model D / PM3 and am wondering if this is displayed on the monitor. How are people rowing determining how far they are rowing per stroke? Another related one is the SPI I have seen recently. It seems this is only available if you have the rowpro or other device. I am quite new and haven't really done a full-out 2K, but the current PB is 8:38. I'm looking to do the holiday challenge 200,000m and then do a 2K test. Thanks.

[old] Daren C · Post by **[old] Daren C** » November 23rd, 2004, 11:04 am

I use RowPro that you mentioned, and that stores all my strokes, enabling me to calculate average distance per stroke by dividing the distance by the number of strokes. It also displays the average DPS for each split at the end of a row. SPI is "stroke power index", and is simply power divided by stroke rate (unless I've misunderstood).

[old] michaelb · Post by **[old] michaelb** » November 23rd, 2004, 1:08 pm

I try to do all of my long steady rows around 10 mps. I don't get too hung up on rowing under or over by a little bit, but it usually helps me keep my stroke rate from sliding up in long pieces. I use this chart, which I printed and pasted to my C2: 10 MPS= Pace Rate 2:20 21 2:15 22 2:10 23 2:05 24 2:00 25 1:55 26 1:50 27 1:45 29 1:40 30 1:35 32 I have never calculated my SPI.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » November 25th, 2004, 2:24 am

I usually row at 8 meters per stroke, or less. My moderate and easy rowing is at 8 mps, and a 500m sprint is closer to 7mps. Long time world record holder Eskild Ebbesen at 6:03.2 rows at 8 mps in competitions, and I am no stronger than he is. You can calculate your mps by dividing 500(m) by the number of strokes. For example, rowing 500m at 2:05 pace and 30 spm: = [500m / 30spm X 60s / 125s ] = 8 meters per stroke

[old] Bayko · Post by **[old] Bayko** » November 25th, 2004, 8:12 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (John Rupp @ Nov 25 2004, 06:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Long time world record holder Eskild Ebbesen at 6:03.2 rows at 8 mps in competitions, and I am no stronger than he is.  </td></tr></table> Therefore, if one plans to row a 6:03.2 2k in competition, one might think about doing so at about 8 mps. Or if one plans to row like John Rupp, one might do all of one's rowing at 8 mps. Others might consider some of the better advice that comes from some of the rowing coaches who post on the forum. Rick (Apologies to new people to the forum who haven't been following John Rupp's four year campaign to confuse racing with training)

[old] Coach Gus · Post by **[old] Coach Gus** » November 25th, 2004, 12:23 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Great Dane @ Nov 23 2004, 06:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> I have a model D / PM3 and am wondering if this is displayed on the monitor.  </td></tr></table> Didn't see an answer to this question. Distance per stroke is not displayed on the PM. I think it would be a good addition to the display options. At this time, you have to purchase a 3rd party program in order to get that information. At this time, RowPro is the only program I am aware of that works with the PM3. One of the RowPro options as it has a chart that can shows DPS as you erg. However, if you are choosing to try to row at 10 mps it's fairly easy to watch the meter total on the PM3 and get your timing down to start your stroke every 10 meters. That leads to an oft debated question of whether 10mps is the way to do your training. There are lots of threads and rather passionate debates involving this training philisophy. I'm in the camp that says if you're currently training at less than 10 mps it's a good goal to set and try to achieve. However, it shouldn't stop there as it's very beneficial to do some to most of your training at higher distances per stroke than 10. For the opposite viewpoint wait for PaulS' posting. He'll be here soon.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » November 25th, 2004, 8:34 pm

Looks like that bull just got something on it's head.

[old] hwt · Post by **[old] hwt** » November 25th, 2004, 10:49 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Didn't see an answer to this question. Distance per stroke is not displayed on the PM. I think it would be a good addition to the display options. </td></tr></table> Don't you find it entertaining to do the math while you row?

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » November 26th, 2004, 12:34 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Coach Gus @ Nov 25 2004, 08:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> RowPro is the only program I am aware of that works with the PM3. However, if you are choosing to try to row at 10 mps it's fairly easy to watch the meter total on the PM3 and get your timing down to start your stroke every 10 meters. I'm in the camp that says if you're currently training at less than 10 mps it's a good goal to set and try to achieve. However, it shouldn't stop there as it's very beneficial to do some to most of your training at higher distances per stroke than 10. For the opposite viewpoint wait for PaulS' posting. He'll be here soon.  </td></tr></table> "Opposite viewpoint", well let's see: ErgMonitor can Replace a PM3 (compatibility seems to be best with Desktops at this point due to "system noise" in laptops, at least that's teh working theory at this point) Personally I think the PM3 makes it tougher to follow 10mps due to the 0.5 second updates, but certainly doable if a person is willing to stay focused. I see a "0" about every other stroke on a PM3, but that will vary from person to person and pace to pace. One way to really mess up is start to chase the numbers. Maybe you think that training at S10PS prevents a person from being able to produce a higher DPS, which might explain your posistion, but of course that's incorrect. I (and rowers I train) find it quite easy to drop the rate and go for a higher DPS, faster pace also, and it's safe to say that "the majority of our training is S10PS". I utilize the Ergo for one reason, to improve performance on the water, fortunately skill development in that area will also improve performance on the Ergo, but that's not my priority. As far as training progams go, I doubt there is much difference in how we might set them up (as far as theory), where the difference will exist is likely on how we determine training zones. I.e Pace based, HR based, HR/SR based, Pace/SR based, etc.... Was that "opposite" enough?

[old] Coach Gus · Post by **[old] Coach Gus** » November 26th, 2004, 1:00 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (PaulS @ Nov 26 2004, 08:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Was that "opposite" enough?  </td></tr></table> No it wasn't. Are you feeling alright?? Actually it was quite a reasonable response. Oops that implies that your previous ones weren't, doesn't it? I didn't realize you had Ergomonitor working with a PM3. It has a ton more info than RowPro, so if someone is looking for lots of data, it could be the way to go. Does it allow online racing?

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