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[old] chippy · Post by **[old] chippy** » September 17th, 2004, 4:32 pm

Taffians Inspired by every ones efforts of late i rowed 18125 meters today and to make sure i keep my fourth place in the team.Chris will be back soon to put pressure on me and Nial is coming along like a steam train. Speedy No word from you today,could you be burning up that 500k to challenge us all???? I love this team.We all want it,and were going to have it. Chippy

[old] blod · Post by **[old] blod** » September 17th, 2004, 6:44 pm

Carla,we live near the Black Mountains.Abergavenny,the two mountains we use are the Sugar Loaf 565 mtrs and the Blorenge 554 mtrs the latter being very steep towards the top.Very hard training but the fresh air and views are magnificent.Sue

[old] seat5 · Post by **[old] seat5** » September 17th, 2004, 6:46 pm

Good going, Chippy! ...was that an hour row? If so I guess Dwayne had better watch out! Thanks for the math help from everyone. I have printed it out so I can refer to it more easily. I do wish the PM2 would tell you MPS, since I get pretty addled trying to figure this stuff out. Couldn't resist trying to get over that 200,000 meters before my friend down under...Let's go, Martin, we've got to make it harder for Niall! I have to say I really love the "avg pace" display. It helped me today to get another season's best on the 10K. I figured I needed to hold 2:12 to do better than my last time, and actually aimed for 2:10. Finished in 43:11.8, avg 2:09.8, 23 SPM. If I did the math right, that comes out to 43.2 minutes (well, close enough, right?) x 23 spm=993.6, that comes out to a bit more than 10 MPS. It was easier to stay on track on this row, because it was counting down from 10K instead of giving me minutes left. When we beat the Ancient Mariners, we ought to take up a collection for Chris as a thank you for starting this team. I'm having more fun rowing than I ever did before, that's for sure! Carla

[old] AussieTaff · Post by **[old] AussieTaff** » September 17th, 2004, 7:57 pm

Hi Carla, congrats on another fabulous row. I knew the temptation of 200K would be too hard to resist but to PB as well !!! As for MPS's, the formula I outlined in yesterday's chat can be used to give an idea of adherence to a desired MPS at any time during your row :- If you choose to stick to 10 MPS (makes the table calculation easier too !) the formula becomes Current Pace (in seconds) x Stroke rate (SPM) = 3000 so for different SPM's we can create a table of the Pace necessary to achieve an MPS of 10. For 23 SPM, Pace = 3000 / 23 = 130.5 seconds (approx) = 2.10.5 For 24 SPM, Pace = 3000 / 24 = 125 seconds = 2.05 For 25 SPM, Pace = 3000 / 25 = 120 seconds = 2.00 and so on. You can make up a table of required Pace for each SPM from, say, 20 to 35, print it out and stick it on the monitor ! Then at any point in your row you can match your current SPM and the Pace displayed on the monitor with a table entry that suits how you are feeling (want to change rating, want to vary pull ?) . For example, if you are currently doing 25 SPM and a Pace of 2.00 (to maintain 10 MPS) and you feel like easing off on the Pace you could drop down to 2.10 Pace (say) and adjust the rating to 23 SPM. This will still give you 10 MPS. All the above is predicated on you wishing to be as close to 10 MPS as possible. If you wish to aim for a different MPS the table of SPM and corresponding Pace will be different. Let me know if you want any further insight into this (if you haven't fallen asleep already ) Off to the gym now (17K, ouch ! ), Cheers, Martin

[old] seat5 · Post by **[old] seat5** » September 17th, 2004, 9:21 pm

To the Stupid Question Department Ok, where does the 3000 come from in For 23 SPM, Pace = 3000 / 23 = 130.5 seconds (approx) = 2.10.5 For 24 SPM, Pace = 3000 / 24 = 125 seconds = 2.05 For 25 SPM, Pace = 3000 / 25 = 120 seconds = 2.00 ?? is it based on the distance you row? 500m x 60 seconds is 30,000 not 3000 so that can't be it...10 mps x 500m x 60 seconds? ?? this is the sort of thing that always happened to me in math class...ending up with numbers at the end of a bunch mathematical convolutions and not knowing what they meant, or if the answer made any sense. Carla

[old] AussieTaff · Post by **[old] AussieTaff** » September 18th, 2004, 12:38 am

Sorry Carla, I didn't explain where the 3000 came from - have to refer back to Chapter 1 (my previous ramblings on the subect of the relationship between MPS, SPM and Pace). In a nutshell, the 3000 comes from dividing 30000 by the desired MPS (in this case 10). i.e. 30000 / 10 = 3000 (why do this - see chapter 1 !!!) If you wish to target a different MPS then the 'constant' used in the calculation for each SPM vs Pace table entry is no longer 3000. It becomes 30000 / MPS E.G. If desired MPS is 9 then 'constant' becomes 30000 / 9 = 3333. Then some typical table entries would be - For SPM = 23, Pace = 3333/23 = 145 seconds (approx) = 2.25 For SPM = 25, Pace = 3333/25 = 133 seconds (approx) = 2.13 For an MPS of 11 the 'constant' becomes 30000 / 11 = 2727. And some typical table entries would be - For SPM = 23, Pace = 2727/23 = 118.5 seconds (approx) = 1.58.5 For SPM = 25, Pace = 2727/25 = 109 seconds (approx) = 1.49 Sorry I can't think of an easier way of explaining it (just back from 17.5 K at the gym doesn't help !) so I've given some examples that may help to see it more clearly. Perhaps we can set a 'Homework' task for our TA team members - "Give a layman's explanation of above in no more than 500 words" ! Cheers, Martin

[old] AussieTaff · Post by **[old] AussieTaff** » September 18th, 2004, 12:48 am

Hi Niall, well you know what they say about the best laid plans .... Carla threw a big spanner in my 8K PB attempt plan by not only getting to 200K first but put a 17K gap between us to boot ! So a tough 8K was not going to do the trick. Instead I went for a 60 min PB (not too hard to do a PB as I've never done this time before). 15312 plus a 10 min warmdown has seen me edge back into 9th spot ! I take my hat off to all you TA'ers that do this type of long row (and longer) - am I sore !!! How's the 300K cruncher row ? Martin

[old] Niall · Post by **[old] Niall** » September 18th, 2004, 1:49 am

Boy am I feeling the pressure from Carla and Martin! You guys are really pounding out those metres. Me on the other hand have been slacking . I struggled with a 10K yesterday and as my back was a bit sore towards the end I decided to leave the rowing for the rest of the day. Will be doing a 10K+2K later today (well that's the plan!). All these metres everyone is putting in has actually closed the gap on UoNM and increased the gap between us and Royal College. Great effort guys! It's been a while since we've been less than 400K behind UoNM so they'll be feeling it now. Let's keep up the collective effort and push hard to that 6th place!

[old] AussieTaff · Post by **[old] AussieTaff** » September 18th, 2004, 3:25 am

Who's going to pull the 10 MILLIONTH metre for Taff Attack !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Currently 9,935,459 Balloons and prizes galore ??? Martin (not me, I'm too sore !)

[old] seat5 · Post by **[old] seat5** » September 18th, 2004, 12:23 pm

Professor Martin: I get it. So it does come from 500m x 60 seconds x 20 MPS. Now it all makes sense. I was going to take a day off today, I'm rather stiff in the lumbar area, but late in the afternoon I'll do something, probably just enough to get even with you again. Congrats on your first hour row! 15132 is a respectable achievement. I have not done an hour row since some time last year and it was only a bit over 13K. I'll have to try one next week, as it bothers me that I haven't any Nonathlon points for that event, and I ought to be able to do quite near 14K. Only 65542m to make 10,000,000!!! We will easily do that in a few days at the rate we are going! I plan to do at least 35K myself this week as it will finish off my first million. When I make it I'm going to add an avatar as a sort of silly reward. Niall: you're doing awesome! As someone who routinely struggles with stiff lower back, I would recommend to you using a Swiss ball to stretch out on. Most mornings I can't bend over at all--it's even hard getting dressed some mornings. But after 20 min. or so on the Swiss ball it's better. I also use one to work on strengthening my abs, which are really weak. Hopefully as they get stronger I won't have as much trouble. Yay Taffs! Carla

[old] Niall · Post by **[old] Niall** » September 18th, 2004, 2:30 pm

WE'VE GONE THROUGH 10 MILLION METRES Many thanks for the kind words Carla, it's just what I want/need right now. Did my scheduled 10K+2K this afternoon. All this talk of 10 MPS got me thinking during my 10K today. Part way through my row I decided to do hit a stroke on every time the metres remaining had a zero on the end (i.e. xxx0 metres) (does that make sense?). What a dramatic difference this made. Not only did the rowing seem easier but my speed increased while my stroke rate decreased Unfortunately the concentration this required meant I couldn't maintain this for the full 10K and I had to go back to my normal stroke routine (i.e. not very efficient or performant I even found myself "hitting some crabs" as my rhythm dictated a stroke before the metres counted down to a "0" unit. Anyway, here's the splits (10 MPS splits are in red): 1:59.4 28spm 2:02.0 27spm 2:02.8 26spm 2:01.5 25spm 2:00.6 25spm 2:01.8 25spm 2:02.2 25spm 2:04.2 24spm 2:02.9 24spm 2:05.3 25spm 2:04.8 25spm 2:05.2 25spm 2:04.9 25spm 2:04.9 26spm 2:05.7 26spm 2:06.0 26spm 2:08.0 25spm 2:08.1 26spm 2:07.9 25spm 1:58.1 27spm This does prove however that I need to work more on 10 MPS rowing so many thanks Carla for highlighting this.

[old] seat5 · Post by **[old] seat5** » September 18th, 2004, 4:02 pm

Hey Niall, Yahoo on the 10 Million!!!! Paul Smith (aka PaulS) got me onto that 10MPS thing. He is a coach and posts a lot in the topic "training". If you want more info about it (also I row strapless because of his advice) take a look at his posts. I had set all my PB's at any old stroke rate, which meant I was probably only getting around 8MPS. I am now trying to always work at 10MPS so that I don't get to just shuttling up and down the slide as fast as I can go. If you get really used to doing 10MPS--by pulling on the 0s, which is exactly how he suggested doing it, by the way--eventually you will do it pretty naturally. I was happy to see that this was so with that 30 min piece--I was pretty close, without being able to see the meters going by. I believe Paul suggests doing actual races (or intentional PB attempts) at any stroke rate you want, as he says, "Train hard, race easy."--that's probably a misquote. I even do my very slow warm ups and cool downs this way and concentrate on the elements of the stroke, trying to keep them in the right order and smooth. There are some who disagree with the 10MPS thing, though (Cran comes to mind) who are also very good rowers and athletes in general. I think it's a good thing, though I don't have much of a record yet to support it, and that if I ever want to get in a boat (seems like too much bother right now) it will help me have a better technique, whereas rushing the slide is definitely not appreciated in a boat! Carla

[old] chippy · Post by **[old] chippy** » September 18th, 2004, 6:16 pm

Graham Well done on hitting a 100000 meters in such a short time,pity your girl friend is beating you but she is special. Had a twelve hour shift on the hammer and saw today so could only manage 5000 meters and a few beers to clear the dust from my throat. Chippy.

[old] AussieTaff · Post by **[old] AussieTaff** » September 18th, 2004, 9:11 pm

Hi Carla, I'm relieved the maths makes sense ! I was working it all out from 'first principles' as I was typing and thought I had better show my workings in case I got it wrong (to at least get part marks from my old maths teachers for showing how I got there !). Hence it was probably a bit too rambly to follow. As an ex rower I have found that 10 MPS feels like a good figure to aim for on the erg - it translates into pretty efficient (possibly optimum) rowing and also helps provide a sense of discipline/structure to the session. I've tended to use the Rating (SPM) and Pace readouts to keep me 'honest' on 10 MPS rather than look at the metres tick by at a particular point in each stroke (to give the MPS for that stroke). This has proved useful when the metres are not displayed (when using Ave Pace instead for example) on the monitor during the row. Hence my interest in the table of SPM vs Pace ! Good luck with the 60 min row next week, a 14K target would mean 2.08.5 pace which would be pretty awesome ! (Formula for Distance vs Required Pace for a 60 min row is : Required Pace (in seconds) = 1800000 / Distance (metres) in case you were wondering !!) Good row Niall, the 10 MPS Carla talks about is an excellent discipline to improve efficiency in one's row. The following table (if memorised !) may help in sticking as close to 10 MPS as possible without watching the metres tick by each stroke - Rating (SPM) vs Pace (rounded) for 10 MPS ... 21 .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 2.22 ... 22 .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 2.16 ... 23 .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 2.10 ... 24 .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 2.05 ... 25 .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 2.00 ... 26 .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 1.55 ... 27 .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 1.51 ... 28 .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 1.47 ... 29 .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 1.43 Note that if you are rating, say, 25 and allow the Pace reading to drift out from 2.00 ( which equates to 10 MPS exactly) by easing off to, say, 2.03 then your MPS will be lower than 10. Conversely, lowering the Pace reading to, say, 1.57 by working harder whilst maintaining a 25 rating will increase your MPS to above 10. The formula for calculating MPS for a given SPM and Pace is MPS = 30000 / (SPM x Pace) where Pace is in seconds So you can calculate your MPS's for your splits if you wish (the first one would be MPS = 30000 / ( 28 x 119.4) = 8.97 ) Congrats on the 300K, now for 400K ! Cheers, Martin

[old] Niall · Post by **[old] Niall** » September 19th, 2004, 1:34 pm

Decided my 10K this afternoon would put into practice the 10 MPS routine and I'd focus on maintaining 2:00 / 25SPM and just hang on as long as possible (mindful that I only managed a few 1000m yesterday before tiring. In summary, I set off well and maintained the 10 MPS for the first 4500m. I then got tired and did my best to keep the rate as close to 2:00 as possible but that meant increased stroke rate and sloppy strokes. Got back into the groove with 2000m to go and finished strongly. Final time of 40:05.4 broke my season's best by 40 seconds so I'm well pleased. I must say I was motivated by you guys to pull this off as I kept thinking about how I'd like to post a reply on the forum about how your advice had helped me out. Particularly Martin and Carla who have been a real source of motivation, support and sound advice. For those that are interested, my splits were as follows: 1:58.7 24spm 2:00.1 24spm 1:58.2 25spm 1:59.8 25spm 1:59.4 25spm 1:59.6 25spm 1:59.3 25spm 2:00.6 25spm 2:00.7 25spm 2:01.9 26spm 2:01.4 27spm 2:01.6 27spm 2:01.9 26spm 2:02.9 26spm 2:03.2 27spm 2:02.7 26spm 2:00.8 26spm 1:59.4 26spm 1:59.2 27spm 1:54.1 28spm So lessons for me from this are: 1) Lower stroke rates mean increased focus on technique and result in a more efficient stroke 2) Need to work on strength and stamina 3) Do it for yourself and for those who have contributed through support, advice and motivation (that's you guys!!) The only downside to this was that I was too tired to do my scheduled +2K (sorry team )

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