Dwyane Adams - Fake Or Real?

[old] Daren C · Post by **[old] Daren C** » January 23rd, 2006, 8:41 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 23 2006, 12:30 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Time goes very slow when you are waiting for something. What time does C2 open?<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Morrisville, Vermont is Eastern Time, which is GMT - 5, so I reckon it's 7:40am at "C2 HQ", and they'll probably open in the next hour or so. Or they may not. =)

[old] Jef · Post by **[old] Jef** » January 23rd, 2006, 8:43 am

I spy with my little eye..... <br /><br />Drink anyone ?

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » January 23rd, 2006, 9:14 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(becz @ Jan 23 2006, 08:25 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Jan 22 2006, 10:37 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(becz @ Jan 22 2006, 11:18 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Jan 22 2006, 09:55 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>But, for someone to come here, and make accusations impuning another's integrity, with no <b>FACTUAL </b>basis, well, I feel you'd agree, that is reprehensible. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />You keep making statements like this, and I find it hard to get my head around it. The FACTS are that Dwayne has claimed to row TWO (no, wait, now THREE) sub 5:50 2k pieces, yet in FOUR tries in public has not come anywhere near those time even ONCE. THOSE ARE THE FACTS. As I said to someone else in a PM, when you then add in all the other weird FACTS (like giving away the PM3 provided to you so you can rank your erg times, getting back from business travel in Asia and banging out a 6:01 USIRT test piece, rowing (on average) 44,000 meters per day without a break), things get hard to swallow. Those are the FACTS that lead to the questioning. Please stop saying there were no FACTS to support what got this whole thing started.<br /><br />What do you think Dwayne would have said if Chad had sent him an email in private saying "Hey, Dwayne, top notch scores, dude. Did you really pull those times?" I'm sure the reply would have been something like "Yup, sure did! Keep at it man, just do your best, maybe someday you can pull those scores, too!" Sometime the only way to get to the truth is to throw all of the FACTS out there in public for everyone to see.<br /><br />I think part of the problem (and I'm being serious here) is that you haven't been in the sport of rowing for very long. I've been rowing on and off the water for almost 20 years now, and I think it's longer for Mike, plus he helps coach a nationally ranked crew, and well as being a world class athlete himself. Our bull-sh*t meters are set pretty high at this point as far as the rowing world goes. You come to have a pretty good idea about what the facts are, and I'll say it again, either the circumstances surrounding the differences between publicly demonstrated ability and posted times are astronomically unusual, or something is not right. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Sandor:<br /><br />Thanks for the message.<br /><br />I had a boss once, his boss was giving him a hard time ... and his boss was a moron. He kept telling my boss about how much experience he had ... etc. etc. My boss had a great response. His question was simply this, "We're you ever really any good at it?" <br /><br />I respect accomplishment like Mike's. But, for someone like you to just say, I have more years here than you, is, in my mind, baloney. You have no idea what I know about rowing, or how I participated in the sport before I started ERGING, or got here, now do you? If you do, please share it with me. Tell me how many times I've been to Henley ... Schoolboys ... who I know in the sport ... how many Olympians I've spent time with and questioned on technique. Go ahead and do it in public, right here. I'm no moron Sandor ... and I take issue with your insinuation that I just fell off the turnip truck last evening.<br /><br />Your response is that of someone who's run out of logic, so now you'll impune my knowledge or whatever.<br /><br />I really don't give a hoot if your s-meter is set high. Chad accused someone of being a cheat, with no FACTUAL evidence. That's a FACT. No emotion, no feelings, no baloney. He's proven himself to be a cad, a liar, a deceiver, and a coward. That's a fact.<br /><br />Thanks.<br /><br />Regards -- Mark <br /> </td></tr></table><br />I made the comment about experience based on posts I've seen from you in other threads. If I made too many assumptions, I apologize. If you'd like to share how much experience you have, I'll tell you mine. Let's leave it at that. And please stop dishing the "you've run out of logic" kind of rhetoric. It's getting old. You never addressed the rest of my post. I think it was quite logical, and FACTUAL.<br /><br />And by the way, now that Mike Caviston has expressed doubt about Dwayne's times in a public forum, yet has not "condemned" Chad for what he posted, I'm sure you will add him to the list of people who you consider "maybe even worse" than Chad. So I'm sure you will therefore add him to the list of people who you will tell your daughter exhibits qualities she should not emulate. N'est pas? <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Sandor:<br /><br />I'm not keeping a list, but you appear to be. I'm not impuning the integrity of anyone here but Chad. As I've said, people often transfer how they would act in a situation onto others. I believe you've done this here. I'm also not sure to which other points I missed responding. You elected to question the validity of my posts because of "experience" -- that is clearly written for all to see. That's not a logical response to my questions and claims.<br /><br />My point has always been only this ... Chad questioned Dwayne's integrity without factual evidence ... only rumour, hearsay, innuendo. Nothing you've listed above <b>PROVES </b>Dwayne cheated, just that there could be some doubt, if one wanted to doubt, in the belief held in one's mind & soul, if they were real. There is a <b>HUGE </b>difference here, which it appears you, and some others, refuse to admit exists. Have I spoken any untruths here?<br /><br />Look at my posts ... closely. I have been very, very, very careful when I've written them. I have read and re-read every word before entering them. I've never told anyone they shouldn't write, feel, or believe what they do, only challenged their thinking. Someone with all these years of competitive experience that you claim to have should have plenty of experience with being pushed, challenged, tested, beaten, and competed with. This is a competition of ideas ... and I know there are many who don't agree with me. That's fine. Just don't ask me to stop competing for the "mind share" of others who will listen, consider, and perhaps decide that they too share my perspective. I will not be bullied. I will also not quit. I never have.<br /><br />-- Mark

[old] Chad Williams · Post by **[old] Chad Williams** » January 23rd, 2006, 9:23 am

Dwayne was just active on the board, looking at PM's then went. <br /><br />Think I will go and do a a fast 1000m to get rid of the nerves, this is so exciting.<br /><br /><br />

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » January 23rd, 2006, 9:25 am

Two points for consideration:<br /><br />1) It was clearly shown that Chad lied about contacting Brody and represented a post that was just snipped from a forum as having been part of Brody's response to him. Yet, not one cry of foul play from anyone but me, I believe.<br /><br />2) Dwayne has posted some smoking hot IND_V times for 500M and 1000M that would clearly support the validity of a sub-6:00 time for the 2K, but that doesn't seem to have been part of the logic or reasoning here.<br /><br />I just find these two points interesting ... in a sociological sort of way.

[old] Carl Henrik · Post by **[old] Carl Henrik** » January 23rd, 2006, 9:27 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Mike Caviston @ Jan 23 2006, 12:45 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Well, Common Sense has been telling me to stay out of this, but Conscience has been nagging me to give my opinion. So FWIW, here it is: I think Chad has been absolutely right to doubt Dwayne’s times. I think polls are silly, and don’t participate, but I’ve always been skeptical (i.e. dubious or unconvinced) of Dwayne. Chad could have phrased his initial question a bit better (which he has admitted), and some of his responses have been pretty crude. Given some of the emotional attacks he’s received, I doubt I would have handled myself any better. I see plenty of opportunities for many people to question their own motives and behavior. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /> = <br />"It's ok to doubt"<br />-Everyone agrees then. <br />"Chad is right to be wrong because I would be wrong and others were wrong"?<br />-OK, yes we are human and have to make mistakes. <br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Mike Caviston @ Jan 23 2006, 12:45 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I think there is a clear distinction between questioning someone’s claims and calling them a liar or a cheat. The sports arena is different from a court of law. An alleged criminal is innocent until proven guilty. In sport, we don’t assume an athlete is capable of a certain performance and remain convinced unless someone proves he isn’t. Asking for proof isn’t the same as claiming the performance didn’t or couldn’t happen. It is asking for positive verification on a matter that some people take quite seriously. Olympians or athletes at many world or national championships are expected to provide urine or blood samples to prove they haven’t used banned performance-enhancing substances. Do we really interpret that as “You’re all cheaters until you prove you’re not”? Anyone who has made the claims that Dwayne has should be prepared to hear people say, “Not that I’m doubting you or anything, but – prove it.” <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />=<br />"To want proof is nothing wrong with."<br />-Everyone agrees. <br /><br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Mike Caviston @ Jan 23 2006, 12:45 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I have absolutely nothing against Dwayne. I’ve traveled with him twice to Europe with the USIRT. He is in fact a very nice guy. But – so what? Does the fact that someone is very supportive of others and their training, and always wishes everyone a Happy Birthday, somehow guarantee that all their claims must be true? Would a con artist appear openly sleazy and fraudulent, or would they attempt to gain trust? Little old ladies get swindled out of their social security checks and tell the police “But he seemed like such a <i>nice</i> man…” Hey, I’m not saying that being nice is necessarily a <i>bad</i> thing; it just doesn’t verify anyone’s erg scores. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />=<br />"Wanting proof is not accusing"<br />-Everyone agrees.<br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Mike Caviston @ Jan 23 2006, 12:45 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Why do some people around here seem to react so violently to the idea that anyone involved with Indoor Rowing might actually cheat? As if this little corner of the world were somehow immune from that basic human fault. People cheat. They cheat on their taxes, they cheat in school, they cheat on their spouses. Cheating and lying occur in sports at all levels. People lie about their golf games, about how much they can bench press, and about how many touchdowns they scored in high school. Parents have lied about their kids’ ages to get them into easier divisions. Runners have taken shortcuts during races. Coaches have influenced judges. Pitchers have doctored baseballs and batters have corked their bats. Even disabled athletes have lied about the severity of their disabilities to be more competitive in a particular category! And then there’s the whole issue of illegal drugs. But cheaters aren’t represented in the Indoor Rowing community to the same degree as elsewhere? Please! And why do people cheat? As often as not, because they can. What could be simpler or less risky than typing a false score onto a web page? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />"there really are good causes to want proof"<br />-Everyone agrees.<br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Mike Caviston @ Jan 23 2006, 12:45 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>As for Dwayne, I can’t get past the fact that in four venue races, he has never broken 7:00. Sick or injured once? Can happen to anyone. Twice? Bad luck. But <b>four times?</b> And never an attempt to get in one healthy performance at Boston or some other venue? Man, I just don’t know. It would just take one solid confirmed row to establish a bit of credibility for any of the fantastic times he’s claimed for all the ranking distances. The various inconsistencies with some of these claims have essentially been ignored. Regarding the veracity of some of Dwayne’s reported 2K times, I see room for doubt in every single case. That’s not claiming that Dwayne lied. It’s just stating there is not sufficient proof to recognize the performance. Although no one from Concept2 has made a statement on this thread, their position is clear. They didn’t recognize Dwayne’s previous claim on the M40HW record. Meanwhile, since C2’s statement about world records needing to be set at official events, they have recognized at least two new records that were set under similar circumstances and with fewer witnesses than Dwayne has claimed. (The notion that Concept2 would deliberately isolate Dwayne and refuse to recognize a credible performance is more outrageous than the notion that Dwayne could possibly lie.) <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />=<br />"There is no proof and proof is not hard to produce for DA"<br />-I think everyone agrees DAs performances had not been fully proved. <br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Mike Caviston @ Jan 23 2006, 12:45 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Some say, “What’s the big deal? Even if someone does make a false claim, they’re only hurting themselves.” I’m struggling with how anyone can embrace this sentiment and claim that the ranking lists have any value at all. If there is value in seeing your name ranked among your peers, and if someone is falsely ranked, then clearly false rankings hurt everyone else on the list. And if someone claims to be at the top of the list – so far at the top of the list as to be statistically improbable – then that claim bears scrutiny. Dwayne competes (no – he <i>doesn’t</i> compete) in what is the most competitive category in Indoor Rowing, IMHO. Dwayne claims to be faster than Tom Bohrer, Andreas van Tonder, Jurgen Schwab, Antii Niskanen, Brian Burke, Mike Connors, John Dixon, Chris Ives, John Grady, Poul Bysted, Grant Biggar, and many others who have all proved their abilities in open competition – including of course Pertti Karpinnen. Any of these people who read the C2 forums and see all the discussion about what a remarkable athlete Dwayne is have the right to say “Wait a minute – what has he ever actually <b>shown</b> he can do?” Heck, even Steve Hargis, who finished 41st at CRASH-B last year in the senior HW event with a time of 7:00.0 has the right to say that. I don’t claim to know about any martial arts code, but my understanding of the Indoor Rowing code is you don’t make claims you can’t prove. You owe it to your competitors. And what about the possibility of somebody dispensing advice that others might follow, based on the premise that the person with the advice has actually done what they claim to have done? I see the potential for harm there.<br /><br /><br /><br />Let me put it another way. If Dwayne were a lightweight and claimed to have rowed 6:13 under similar circumstances (no completed races, no incontrovertible proof) and I came on the forum and saw him get the kind of adulation he does, I’d be pretty upset. I don’t know how I’d express it, but I would definitely feel it. Or I can give a more concrete example. Last year I won the WIRC in the senior LW division. If you look at the 2005 ranked 2Ks for 40-49 LW men, the fastest time listed is by Rob Ezold of Clinton, TN. I’m second. During the weeks prior to CRASH-B, I had noticed Rob had posted a time in the 6:20s and that he had registered for the race on RegattaCentral. So I pegged him as one to watch. Ultimately he didn’t attend the race, but two weeks later he posted a time faster than my gold medal time. Now, I have absolutely no basis for doubting Rob’s time. I don’t know anything about him, and I am not claiming he didn’t pull that score. For all I know he was psyched to come to CRASH-Bs but something came up and he couldn’t attend but still wanted to leave some record of his hard work and preparation. But it bugs me a little that someone might look at the ranking page and say, “Oh, this Ezold guy is the fastest senior lightweight in the world”, even though he didn’t prove it during the same trial by fire as me. Just below my name on the ranking list is Kent Timm, who for the past few years has ranked scores for 500m, 1K, 6K and 60’ that are all faster than I could ever do. He always ranks a 2K time just a little slower than me. I’m not sure what’s up with that, but a cynical interpretation is that most people won’t have a frame of reference for the other distances but he’s afraid to make too fantastic a claim for a distance that features public competition. To my knowledge, Timm has never raced at a venue. Now, I don’t care too much about any of this because not too many people really pay that much attention to the rankings anyway. But the point I am making is that if either Ezold or Timm came on the forum regularly to talk about their accomplishments and got the kind of response Dwayne does from his admirers, I’d be upset. Call me childish or petty, but that’s the way it is. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />="There is the right to be emotionally concerned"<br />- Everyone agrees.<br /><br />(Extract: "I don’t claim to know about any martial arts code, but my understanding of the Indoor Rowing code is you don’t make claims you can’t prove" <br />- "Are his times real -NO" ring a bell...)<br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Mike Caviston @ Jan 23 2006, 12:45 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>And BTW, I think my response is pretty typical of people that attend major races and finish in the medals. We talk. We talk about issues like this. And I would also be willing to bet any amount of money you could not find anyone associated with Concept2 who would be willing to say they accept the claims Dwayne has made (2K, total meters, other distances, etc.) without question.<br /><br />Anybody who makes claims about fantastic performances should be prepared to back them up with solid proof. I’ve laughed for years at people who’ve taken Rod Freed seriously. Even Ranger, who has indisputably turned in world class performances in the past, needs to put up or shut up about what he can do now. And Dwayne doesn’t have the benefit of a past race to pin his claims on. If in the future Dwayne can provide solid proof of a fast time, then I’ll offer my congratulations along with everyone else. But I don’t care if Jesus, Buddha and Mohammed all show up to certify the results, I won’t feel guilty for doubting him until now. And regardless of what someone does in an isolated time trial, the only way to be recognized as the very best is to defeat all comers in open competition. Dwayne needs to show up in Boston one of these years.<br /><br />Based on all the emotional responses to this topic so far, my opinions are clearly going to offend some people and maybe cost me some good will on the forum. That’s unfortunate. I didn’t ask for this issue to come along, but given that it did I had to say my piece.<br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />-An excellent display of stamina before you did so, though

[old] Chad Williams · Post by **[old] Chad Williams** » January 23rd, 2006, 9:39 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Jan 23 2006, 08:25 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Two points for consideration:<br /><br />1) It was clearly shown that Chad lied about contacting Brody and represented a post that was just snipped from a forum as having been part of Brody's response to him. Yet, not one cry of foul play from anyone but me, I believe. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 22 2006, 01:07 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 22 2006, 07:29 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>All I have to do is drop Robert an e-mail and he can confirm if it really exists, or not, this is what we want to know. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />As it says above, all I had to do was to contact Robert Brody, I did not need to as before I could locate his e-mail address, I had found out that he had left C2, as stated above in Italics in my post a few up this page. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Is that saying I <b>DID</b> contact him? yes, I have spoken to Robert before. I do have contact details for him, I did not use it on this occasion but have done in the past.<br /><br />Please read all relevant posts before making one of yours.<br /><br />

[old] Graham Benton · Post by **[old] Graham Benton** » January 23rd, 2006, 9:42 am

mpukita<br /><br />I didn't interpret Chad using the Robert Brody quote in the same way that you did - I thought that he was just referring to the fact that he subsequently found out that Brody had parted company with C2 so could no longer follow that line of enquiry. That's how I understood the post that included the quote - Chad may have used the quote differently in a later post but I have just skim read a lot of this thread so could have missed something.<br /><br />Also, I believe that the process for obtaining IND-V for ranking times was different when the 500m and 1000m time were logged. We did have a statement from C2 Bill confirming that no times had been logged using the PM3 verification code.

[old] Chad Williams · Post by **[old] Chad Williams** » January 23rd, 2006, 9:57 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Jan 23 2006, 08:25 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>2) Dwayne has posted some smoking hot IND_V times for 500M and 1000M that would clearly support the validity of a sub-6:00 time for the 2K, but that doesn't seem to have been part of the logic or reasoning here.<br /><br />I just find these two points interesting ... in a sociological sort of way. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Point 2.<br /><br />These times were not done using the PM3 IND_V ranking system. It was confirmed by C2 that Dwayne had the PM3 unit to do an IND_V PM3 varified row, but choose to get a gym worker to varify the row instead.<br /><br />Yet again all this information is available in this thread, just look. It saves me repeating everything.

[old] cbrock · Post by **[old] cbrock** » January 23rd, 2006, 9:57 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Jan 23 2006, 09:25 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Two points for consideration:<br /><br />1) It was clearly shown that Chad lied about contacting Brody and represented a post that was just snipped from a forum as having been part of Brody's response to him. Yet, not one cry of foul play from anyone but me, I believe.<br /><br />2) Dwayne has posted some smoking hot IND_V times for 500M and 1000M that would clearly support the validity of a sub-6:00 time for the 2K, but that doesn't seem to have been part of the logic or reasoning here.<br /><br />I just find these two points interesting ... in a sociological sort of way. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />And without wanting to totally destroy my credibility with the Posters Anonymous guys:<br /><br />As I have said countless times in this thread the Ind_V times can be easily manipulated.<br /><br />Either of those workouts could be done as an interval workout and subsequently verified as a set piece.<br /><br />In fact I will go out on a limb here now and say that in fact the submission of an Ind_V time by a cheat is a classic case of a false positive.<br /><br />It gives the impression that it proves the time has been rowed, or has been actually witnessed or verified, which is unfortunately not true.<br /><br />Again my comments are in respect to the generality of the verification system not any person (including Dwayne).<br /><br />Oh well back to therapy I guess!<br /><br />Chris<br />

[old] Chad Williams · Post by **[old] Chad Williams** » January 23rd, 2006, 10:03 am

Just a reminder why we are all waiting on this thread.<br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dadams @ Jan 20 2006, 08:38 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Tell ya what I'm gonna do fur ya Graham. I'll erg a 2k piece this weekend. On a Model D, with the new firmware. I'll get the code from the machine and enter the piece in the rankings. I'll also take a screen shot of the piece (or have one of the people at the boathouse do it while I'm rowing) and down load it for you to take a look at. Sound like a plan?<br /><br />Dwayne <br /> </td></tr></table><br />

[old] TomR/the elder · Post by **[old] TomR/the elder** » January 23rd, 2006, 10:10 am

9.10 here in VT.<br /><br />Snow coming down. I hope it doesn't cause delays for anyone on his or her way to work.<br /><br />Tom

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » January 23rd, 2006, 10:11 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 22 2006, 07:29 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Well, before Dwayne posts his 2000m time I thought I better just post the results of my “homework” that Dwayne said I best do a bit more of, so here we go.<br /><br />I will keep it short, as no doubt the longer I make it people will twist it to mean the opposite to what I intended it to come across as.<br /><br />I tried to track down the piece of paper that confirmed Dwayne’s times that would qualify him for the USIRT. After sending emails and hours of web searching it turns out the verification paper would be with Robert Brody who was in charge of the USIRT at that time.<br /><br />Well, that will be easy to confirm then wont it? All I have to do is drop Robert an e-mail and he can confirm if it really exists, or not, this is what we want to know.<br /><br />Imagine my surprise when I find this from Robert Brody<br /><i>"After over 20 years, I now longer work for Concept2. <br />On 06 December I was fired. Essentially told to pack up my things and get out. Locked out of the computer".</i><br /><br /><br />So, I guess we will never know now.<br /><br />I also guess that this is a delicate subject for C2, and they may well be going through Employment tribunals with regards to this case, so this post may get removed by the web master.<br /><br />I have great respect for Robert Brody and wish him well in what ever he goes on to do next. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />OK:<br /><br /><b>Imagine my surprise when I find this from Robert Brody<br /><i>"After over 20 years, I now longer work for Concept2. <br />On 06 December I was fired. Essentially told to pack up my things and get out. Locked out of the computer".</i></b><br /><br />Chad posted that he had done "homework" and intimated that he had some "smoking gun" proof that Dwayne had somehow manipulated the system. That proof would need to be from someone, directly, who had knowledge of some scam or fakery. Otherwise, we here would dismiss it as specious. When he puts this all together, and then says, "I find from Robert Brody" as in, "I find a message in response to all those I've sent ..." <br /><br />Believe what you want, I believe that Chad was trying to manipulate a bunch of unrelated posts into being something they are not ...

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » January 23rd, 2006, 10:14 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Graham Benton @ Jan 23 2006, 09:42 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>mpukita<br /><br />I didn't interpret Chad using the Robert Brody quote in the same way that you did - I thought that he was just referring to the fact that he subsequently found out that Brody had parted company with C2 so could no longer follow that line of enquiry. That's how I understood the post that included the quote - Chad may have used the quote differently in a later post but I have just skim read a lot of this thread so could have missed something.<br /><br />Also, I believe that the process for obtaining IND-V for ranking times was different when the 500m and 1000m time were logged. We did have a statement from C2 Bill confirming that no times had been logged using the PM3 verification code. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Fair interpretation Graham. For me though, put into the context of all of Chad's other posts, I choose to interpret it differently, and I would assume you'd see how it would be fair to do that.<br /><br />Those times were logged this season. Has the verification process changed that recently? I've seen nothing on this ... maybe I missed it?

[old] Chad Williams · Post by **[old] Chad Williams** » January 23rd, 2006, 10:16 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Jan 23 2006, 09:11 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 22 2006, 07:29 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Well, before Dwayne posts his 2000m time I thought I better just post the results of my “homework” that Dwayne said I best do a bit more of, so here we go.<br /><br />I will keep it short, as no doubt the longer I make it people will twist it to mean the opposite to what I intended it to come across as.<br /><br />I tried to track down the piece of paper that confirmed Dwayne’s times that would qualify him for the USIRT. After sending emails and hours of web searching it turns out the verification paper would be with Robert Brody who was in charge of the USIRT at that time.<br /><br />Well, that will be easy to confirm then wont it? All I have to do is drop Robert an e-mail and he can confirm if it really exists, or not, this is what we want to know.<br /><br />Imagine my surprise when I find this from Robert Brody<br /><i>"After over 20 years, I now longer work for Concept2. <br />On 06 December I was fired. Essentially told to pack up my things and get out. Locked out of the computer".</i><br /><br /><br />So, I guess we will never know now.<br /><br />I also guess that this is a delicate subject for C2, and they may well be going through Employment tribunals with regards to this case, so this post may get removed by the web master.<br /><br />I have great respect for Robert Brody and wish him well in what ever he goes on to do next. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />OK:<br /><br /><b>Imagine my surprise when I find this from Robert Brody<br /><i>"After over 20 years, I now longer work for Concept2. <br />On 06 December I was fired. Essentially told to pack up my things and get out. Locked out of the computer".</i></b><br /><br />Chad posted that he had done "homework" and intimated that he had some "smoking gun" proof that Dwayne had somehow manipulated the system. That proof would need to be from someone, directly, who had knowledge of some scam or fakery. Otherwise, we here would dismiss it as specious. When he puts this all together, and then says, "I find from Robert Brody" as in, "I find a message in response to all those I've sent ..." <br /><br />Believe what you want, I believe that Chad was trying to manipulate a bunch of unrelated posts into being something they are not ... <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /> <br /><br />

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Dwyane Adams - Fake Or Real?

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