Dwyane Adams - Fake Or Real?

[[old] hjs]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 18 2006, 04:31 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 18 2006, 04:31 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-slo_boat+Jan 18 2006, 10:26 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(slo_boat @ Jan 18 2006, 10:26 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Begin taking responsibility for the change you want to occur. <i>That means doing something instead of simply complaining that other people are not.</i><br /><br />Propose a set of standards for records.<br /><br />Develop a sanctioning body. <i>This will be a lot of work, but you might be surprised to learn how many people will step forward to help once you begin.</i> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hello, what do you think I am aiming towards!? People need to first understand what is wrong with the current system, this is what I am doing, pointing out the failings we have now. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Why is nobody coming forward who 've seen Adams row? he trains in gym makes lots of meters so there must be a ziljoen people who witness his worksouts. Strange strange strange.

[[old] Chad Williams]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulH+Jan 18 2006, 10:45 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulH @ Jan 18 2006, 10:45 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So where's your proof?<br /><br />Paul <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Look back over the last 10 pages Paul.<br /><br />For your information, I think Dwayne is fast on the erg, but not sub 5.50.<br /><br />Being an ex-body builder I would not be surprised if he could pull a 1.14.5 500m. but I would still like proof.<br /><br />

[[old] Daren C]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 18 2006, 03:23 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 18 2006, 03:23 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Daren C+Jan 18 2006, 10:16 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Daren C @ Jan 18 2006, 10:16 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 18 2006, 02:52 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 18 2006, 02:52 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I need to prove to people that things need to change </td></tr></table><br /><br />Feel free to start offering evidence in this case, any time. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />The case for the defence rests, show me what you got Daren, just a few more one liners I bet. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />You're resting your case before you've offered any evidence? OK, fair enough; that's your call. However, as far as proving "that things need to change", you're not getting very far.

[[old] Dickie]

<!--QuoteBegin-tomhz+Jan 17 2006, 04:11 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(tomhz @ Jan 17 2006, 04:11 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 17 2006, 07:58 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 17 2006, 07:58 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I am not saying a bad word about Dwayne as an individual, I know he is regarded very highly on this forum; I have not attacked him personally.<br /><br />It seems to me that the way he ranks times (without proof) is a bit insulting to the people that look up to him and respect him. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />1) I agree with this.<br /><br />2) I believe Dwayne Adams' times are real.<br /><br />Tom <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Chad<br /><br />I just checked and there are 1718 times posted for the 5k for 40-49 year olds, there are two verified times, that means there are 1716 people, including Dwayne, who have no proof. Why is it that he needs proof and none of the other 1715 people with no proof don't need it?<br /><br />The rankings have always been informal and operated on the honor system. My parents taught me that people deserve my respect until they do something that shows me they no longer deserve it. Dwayne has my respect, I believe his times and I don't feel insulted. In this country you are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, Dwayne has nothing to prove, but you do. So prove his times wrong or let it go. To do anything else would be insulting.

[[old] Daren C]

<!--QuoteBegin-hjs+Jan 18 2006, 03:47 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(hjs @ Jan 18 2006, 03:47 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why is nobody coming forward who 've seen Adams row? he trains in gym makes lots of meters so there must be a ziljoen people who witness his worksouts. Strange strange strange.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />That's flawed logic, indeed. Given there are probably only 1 or 200 (yes, I'm guessing, but I think that's realistic) <i>regular</i> readers of this forum, it's not very likely that anyone reading this particular thread would ever have witnessed Dwayne training. Has anyone on this forum seen you train? Or me? (Well, OK, yes at least one has seen me training, but that's only 'cause I went to her house.)<br />

[[old] slo_boat]

<!--QuoteBegin-cbrock+Jan 18 2006, 10:31 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(cbrock @ Jan 18 2006, 10:31 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->SloBoat,<br />What disturbs me and I would think a lot of other people is the Concept2 Page on their own site which says "World Records for all Ranking Distances"<br /><br />You are entitled to maimtain the very reasonable view that the "Honour System" and "World Record Ranking" is fine as it stands and is good enough for you.<br /><br />It will never be an issue for you as your times are not in the top percentile of your age group.<br /><br />Myself and others however do not share your view of the current system <br /><br />Whilst I will never get beyond the 50 percentile in the rankings I do feel that the Top Rowers deserve the best system of verification that can be produced.<br /><br />If this means ongoing improvisation and improvement to existing verification methods then I certainly am for that.<br /><br />Short of being a computer programer with access to Concept2 macines and data, I doubt whether an individual has any real capacity to contribute or "improve" what Concept2 is doing. Trade Mark and Copyright issues also arise.<br /><br />As long as Concept2 have World and National Championship events in their name then I would hope that they continue to improve their verification methods accordingly.<br /><br />If the present system is as good as it gets then we can ask no more of them.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Chris <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I don't know you, and you don't know me. You should be careful assigning motives to me. Whether I am in the top percentile or not may have no bearing on my position (which you apparently misunderstand). For what it is worth, I disagree with your contention that, "Top Rowers deserve the best system of verification that can be produced." Instead I believe that all indoor rowers deserve the best system that they are willing to develop for themselves. That is the way that it has worked in every other sport.<br /><br />I have no problem with C2 putting up a page that talks about world records. As long as the indoor rowing world expects C2 to be the arbiter of the sport, then the indoor rowing world should abide by C2. <br /><br />On the other hand, if you want uniform standards and some sort of sanctioning body, then do what every other sport has done and create a governing body. If not, then accept the continued generosity of C2 without whining. <br /><br />I'm not saying that the system is perfect. Certainly there is room for improvement. If you have constructive criticism, then send it directly to C2. The few times that I have sent any ideas in to C2, they have always been well received. <br /><br />I have to question the intent when criticism is sent to C2 by posting it on a public forum. Is the writer trying to foster change, or is the writer merely waving a flag that says, "Look at me!" <br /><br />In an effort to drift back to the original topic for a moment, I've also got to question the intent when someone publicy calls another person a liar and then says he isn't questioning the person's honesty, he's only trying to call attention to a larger issue. What is the real issue? What is the true agenda?<br /><br />C2 is a business. The business that they are in is to manufacture and sell C2 rowing ergometers, oars, and rowing-related items. Their involvement as a defacto sanctioning body for indoor rowing is a means to an end. C2 uses the rankings and events as a way to maintain or increase demand for their machines. If C2 suddenly stopped manufacturing and selling ergs, do you think they would continue to act as a defacto governing body?<br /><br />Computer data, trademark and copyright issues, and access to C2 are red herrings. So too is C2 ownership of National and World Championship events. The reason that the first grouping is not an issue is that the activity in question is rowing set distances for time. While the current system uses existing computer data and has the C2 name plastered all over it, that does not mean that any new system would. That would be up to the governing body. C2 would have a vested interest in continuing involvement however, so those obstacles could probably be overcome. The Championship events are non issues simply because there are no other competing events. If ergers form a governing body and choose to have championships, then they will either compete with or absorb the existing events. C2 would probably remain involved as a primary sponser for the same reasons that they manage the whole thing now.<br /><br /><br />

[[old] Mark Keating]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 18 2006, 10:52 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 18 2006, 10:52 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-PaulH+Jan 18 2006, 10:45 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulH @ Jan 18 2006, 10:45 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So where's your proof?<br /><br />Paul <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Look back over the last 10 pages Paul.<br /><br />For your information, I think Dwayne is fast on the erg, but not sub 5.50.<br /><br />Being an ex-body builder I would not be surprised if he could pull a 1.14.5 500m. but I would still like proof. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />I hate to divert such an interesting thread, but how are you liking your free slides Chad?

[[old] Chad Williams]

<!--QuoteBegin-Dickie+Jan 18 2006, 11:05 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Dickie @ Jan 18 2006, 11:05 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I just checked and there are 1718 times posted for the 5k for 40-49 year olds, there are two verified times, that means there are 1716 people, including Dwayne, who have no proof.  Why is it that he needs proof and none of the other 1715 people with no proof don't need it?[right] <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />All the others are not claiming World Records or World best scores over every ranking distance.<br /><br />

[[old] hjs]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 18 2006, 05:18 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 18 2006, 05:18 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Dickie+Jan 18 2006, 11:05 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Dickie @ Jan 18 2006, 11:05 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I just checked and there are 1718 times posted for the 5k for 40-49 year olds, there are two verified times, that means there are 1716 people, including Dwayne, who have no proof.  Why is it that he needs proof and none of the other 1715 people with no proof don't need it?[right] <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />All the others are not claiming World Records or World best scores over every ranking distance. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Not the claiming is important but the fact that no one cvan provide any proof of seeing adams doing a fast ergo. No matter what distance and no matter what location is strange. Almost everybody who ergs has public appearences. Why doesn,t he have any ?? <br />

[[old] hennmart]

I saw these two posts. Dwayne had rowed a WR of 5:47.1 and there were 3 witnesses.<br /><br />See posts:<br /><br /><a href='http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... ost&p=5177' target='_blank'>1ste post</a><br /><br /><a href='http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... ost&p=5489' target='_blank'>2nd post</a><br /><br />Hennie

[[old] Dickie]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 18 2006, 12:18 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 18 2006, 12:18 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Dickie+Jan 18 2006, 11:05 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Dickie @ Jan 18 2006, 11:05 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I just checked and there are 1718 times posted for the 5k for 40-49 year olds, there are two verified times, that means there are 1716 people, including Dwayne, who have no proof.  Why is it that he needs proof and none of the other 1715 people with no proof don't need it?[right] <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />All the others are not claiming World Records or World best scores over every ranking distance. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Who's claiming World Records, I just checked the World Record Site maintained by C2 and Dwayne is not listed. He has, however, posted his best times to the ranking just like me and everyone else but I see no mention of world record for anyone on any ranking list, you must be confused because the rankings are not world records, they are simply the best times posted this ranking year, which runs from May 1, 2005 to April 30, 2006. On May 1, 2006 all those times will be gone and we start all over again. That could be why you see a 6:03.5 for Dwayne on the 2000m list for 40-49 year olds in the 2006 list and 5:47.1 in the 2005 list.<br /><br />

[[old] Delilah]

Hennie,<br />Well thanks for that.<br />As far as I can tell USIRT and C2 appear to be inseparable.<br />So surely C2 can tell us who their representative was.<br />If that someone will just come forward and say<br />"yes I saw every stroke and it was b....... amazing* then I will be perfectly happy to believe.<br />To be honest I am perfectly prepared to believe it's just that there are lots of inconsistencies. I don't think there is anyone who won't be perfectly satisfied when someone official steps forward but until then doubts will remain.<br />D

[[old] dadams]

<!--QuoteBegin-Delilah+Jan 18 2006, 12:07 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Delilah @ Jan 18 2006, 12:07 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hennie,<br />Well thanks for that.<br />As far as I can tell USIRT and C2 appear to be inseparable.<br /><b>So surely C2 can tell us who their representative was.</b><br />If that someone will just come forward and say<br />"yes I saw every stroke and it was b....... amazing* then I will be perfectly happy to believe.<br />To be honest I am perfectly prepared to believe it's just that there are lots of inconsistencies.  I don't think there is anyone who won't be perfectly satisfied when someone official steps forward but until then doubts will remain.<br />D <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Tom Gallegher (spelling). Was a USIRT official at the time. Last time I knew he was working for Sykes Racing North America (out of Philly I think).

[[old] gw1]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Tom Gallegher (spelling). Was a USIRT official at the time. Last time I knew he was working for Sykes Racing North America (out of Philly I think). </td></tr></table><br /><br />If he verified the piece to C2 then this should be over!

[[old] TomR/the elder]

Fred, you wrote: "Who's claiming World Records, I just checked the World Record Site maintained by C2 and Dwayne is not listed. "<br /><br />I just checked the C2 WR site (link from the Rankings page) and found Dwayne listed as 40-50 yr old record holder for 5k, 6k, and 10k, all rowed in 2005. (He might be listed at other distances, I didn't bother to look.)<br /><br />I can't account for the difference between what you found and I did, unless you were looking at all-time records vs the age-group records I searched.<br /><br />Tom