My 2k Pace Is Another's Marathon Pace

[[old] Bill]

Hello,<br /><br />I have noticed that my 2k pace is the same as elite athletes marathon pace.<br /><br />Is it the same with swimming and running and cycling ie elite athletes can go extreme distances at mortals sprint paces ?<br /><br />Bill

[[old] Sirrowsalot]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bill+Feb 1 2005, 09:08 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Bill @ Feb 1 2005, 09:08 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hello,<br /><br />I have noticed that my 2k pace is the same as elite athletes marathon pace.<br /><br />Is it the same with swimming and running and cycling ie elite athletes can go extreme distances at mortals sprint paces ?<br /><br />Bill <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Elite Marathoners routinely run sub-five-minute miles--a pace most "mortals" are unlikely to come close to for even one mile.

[[old] neilb]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bill+Feb 1 2005, 09:08 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Bill @ Feb 1 2005, 09:08 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hello,<br /><br />I have noticed that my 2k pace is the same as elite athletes marathon pace.<br /><br />Is it the same with swimming and running and cycling ie elite athletes can go extreme distances at mortals sprint paces ?<br /><br />Bill <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I used to know a guy who was a professional cyclist. He was not at the top of the sport but good enough to ride full time for a professional racing team. Now, at that time I was pretty fit and did a lot of leisure cycling but there was no way I could expect to keep up with him for long even when I was riding flat out and he was going at training pace. <br /><br />His training rides were 60 miles plus per day at that pace and he was frustrated because he was not good enough to get a place in a Tour De France team! <br /><br />So, I think it is fair to say that in any sport the elite have a base level of conditioning, fitness and mental toughness that for them means their training/endurance pace is equal to, or better than, that of the ordinary mortals.<br /><br />Remember though you are talking about a very small percentage of the population. I find that I can take motivation and inspiration by the way they train and their approach to the sport. The gulf in performance between me and them will always be massive but at least I can say that I try and apply myself with similar commitment and focus. (and as I am so much further down the performance curve my performances will improve at a much faster rate than theirs!) <br /><br /><br />

[[old] Canoeist]

I can pull on an erg at a 1:50 pace for an entire marathon, but I can't keep up with a marathon runner on the track for more than half a lap. Some people are built and have adapted for certain sports and not for others.<br /><br />Cheers,<br /><br />Paul Flack

[[old] Bill]

<!--QuoteBegin-Canoeist+Feb 2 2005, 08:42 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Canoeist @ Feb 2 2005, 08:42 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I can pull on an erg at a 1:50 pace for an entire marathon, but I can't keep up with a marathon runner on the track for more than half a lap.  Some people are built and have adapted for certain sports and not for others.<br /><br />Cheers,<br /><br />Paul Flack <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Paul,<br /><br />Thats precisely what I mean - my 2k pace is 1:47. You are doing a marathon at 1:50<br /><br />Have you done years of training and worked hard to be able to do marathons at 1:50 or is it something that you can simply "do" and accept as natural ?<br /><br />Bill<br /><br /><br /><br />

[[old] jamesg]

I can freestyle at 2'/100m for an hour, and around 1:40 for 100m only. Fastest 100 I ever did was around 1:10. An Olympic 1500 m final needs to be done faster than 1'/100.<br /><br />I think in swimming as well as the cube law there's also a wave effect, it's very hard to swim faster than the speed of your own wave length. More praise to those swimmers, and their technique. Swimming is A Good Thing in all respects, I'm all in favour of horizontal sports.<br /><br />My 2k erging is around 1:50, but I can plead extreme age and laziness. Just did a ¼ M at 2:10 to see what might happen to me in a ½; not idling, but not much more either. My window between flat-out and just getting there is very narrow.

[[old] Canoeist]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bill+Feb 5 2005, 06:50 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Bill @ Feb 5 2005, 06:50 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Canoeist+Feb 2 2005, 08:42 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Canoeist @ Feb 2 2005, 08:42 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I can pull on an erg at a 1:50 pace for an entire marathon, but I can't keep up with a marathon runner on the track for more than half a lap.  Some people are built and have adapted for certain sports and not for others.<br /><br />Cheers,<br /><br />Paul Flack <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Paul,<br /><br />Thats precisely what I mean - my 2k pace is 1:47. You are doing a marathon at 1:50<br /><br />Have you done years of training and worked hard to be able to do marathons at 1:50 or is it something that you can simply "do" and accept as natural ?<br /><br /><br />Bill <br /> </td></tr></table><br />I have rowed around 9 million meters in the last 4 years. I have always been active and in fairly good shape. I suspect that I have a bit of natural advantage to rowing by being 6'3 1/2" tall. I suspect that most of my endurance was developed years ago when I paddled 3 hours every day for about 15 years.<br /><br />Paul Flack

[[old] RacerX]

I used to race triathlons at a fiarly competitive age-group level. In the 80's I trained with the then elite in the sport - Tinley, Allen, Newby-Frasier, a young Lance Armstrong and so on. I have also cycled with Andy Hampsten and Greg LeMond. And I had exactly the same experience - my short-to-middle distance pace was thier long distance pace.<br /><br />Maybe I am being simplistic, but the big differences I saw were:<br /><br />1. The elite can recover incredibly quickly and (relevant to this post)<br /><br />2. The elite can maintain a higher percentage of sustained max effort for much, much longer periods then us mortals. Put another way, I could run a few max effort quarters with a Mark Allen, and probably be close for a mile. But at half marathon, no way. <br /><br />Aaron

[[old] Kudos]

Anotehr thing to look into is if you train alone. It is good for keeping in decent shape and having some fun with race paces, but you will come no where near your potential unless you train with a competitive group on a consistent basis. I think you would be surprised what would happen if you got together at a rowing club to do peices instead of by yourself. I know that this is not possible for many of us out there so i definitly applaud those who manage great scores alone. But the truly mind numbing scores come form those who are a part of a rowing team. Hence the reason why the mens and womens open WR scores have always been recorded by rowers from national and collegiate teams. Many of these athletes have been rowing in organized fashion since their early teens. Anyway, keep at it, experience in the technique of rowing plays a huge role in performance. I think it is as technically demanding as swimming.

[[old] Physicist]

<!--QuoteBegin-Kudos+Feb 7 2005, 01:34 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Kudos @ Feb 7 2005, 01:34 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anotehr thing to look into is if you train alone. It is good for keeping in decent shape and having some fun with race paces, but you will come no where near your potential unless you train with a competitive group on a consistent basis.[right] <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Surely this is an individual thing? Some people are capable of pushing themselves to the limit alone. I'm sure I could think of some examples if I put my mind to it... off the top of my head didn't Brad Lewis train more or less alone before the 1x trials for the '84 Olympics?<br /><br />I agree though that most people benefit a lot from the competitive edge of training with a partner/in a group. Though I doubt the effect can often explain such gulfs in standard as the original post was asking about.

[[old] Kudos]

He did on and off, but if you also remember he did row in college, had a trainer and coaches for the entire time that he checked in with and competed against others consistently throughout his career (once a month). He was really only alone in that he was not part of an organised team/training group, like many of the people he competed against. Many thought he was alone because he was on the west coast and no one really knew who he was or who he trained with. He basically trained a lot like Xeno does I think. (feel free to chime in Xeno and shoot me down) Alone, yet not...Anyway, his best performances and improvements came when he trained with Enquist and Johnson up in Ithaca so that still says a lot for having others to compete against. Lewis' accomplishments are still very rare and amazing considering the amount of time he did spend alone. I'm not saying it is impossible to do, just very very hard. <br />I think there is also a lot to be said of being in an organised program to at least establish where the potential lies. I can not recall any one who at least did not have a start with an organised team to establish a potential first before going pretty much solo.<br />The reason why I believe this is from a lot of my own experience. Albeit it is hard becasue I was so young, but my dad rowed in college, and I played around on the erg when I was young and then joined my HS school crew team which only had 4 ergs at the time. So, I would erg approx every other day during Spring training. As a senior I had a very mediocre 7:00min erg despite a large amount of training, larger and more than anyone I knew/know at that age. When I got to college and competed on a much more consistent basis my erg scores started to drop rapidly. A highly organized and intense training regimen correlated this and I consistently improved. After college I rowed by myself for apporoximately 6-7 months. My erg scores deteriorated despite putting in the same mileage, nothing drastic, but probably 6 secs of 2k pace. Once I got back in a program with others, i was doing just as good as before and improving scores again. There is a lot to be said of that last last 10-15% of intensity that competeting can bring out of you. Its not anything major, but for most people it can lead to big jumps.

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-RacerX+Feb 7 2005, 07:41 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(RacerX @ Feb 7 2005, 07:41 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The elite can maintain a higher percentage of sustained max effort for much, much longer periods </td></tr></table><br />It is interesting that the sustainable percentage of HRR continues to go up as fitness improves.<br /><br />Thus for example at a basic level a set of 10x 1k might be at 80-85% of HRR.<br /><br />At a higher level:<br /><br />1) The 10x 1k are faster at 85% of HRR, and;<br /><br />2) You can do them at a higher percentage of HRR at the same effort, and/or sustain a higher effort level. For example 92% of HRR can be done at the same effort as 85% was before.

[[old] Canoeist]

<!--QuoteBegin-Kudos+Feb 7 2005, 06:34 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Kudos @ Feb 7 2005, 06:34 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anotehr thing to look into is if you train alone. ..... this is not possible for many of us out there [right] <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />They should get a copy of RowPro and join the fray! Two weeks ago, Ernie's 4 x 1K races/workout with 8 lanes full was particularly brutal.<br /><br />Cheers,<br /><br />Paul Flack

[[old] slo_boat]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bill+Feb 1 2005, 09:08 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Bill @ Feb 1 2005, 09:08 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hello,<br /><br />I have noticed that my 2k pace is the same as elite athletes marathon pace.<br /><br />Is it the same with swimming and running and cycling ie elite athletes can go extreme distances at mortals sprint paces ?<br /><br />Bill <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I remember running my first marathon. Not too long after passing the half way mark, one of the people near me who was listening to a radio said. "The winner just crossed the finish line."<br /><br />During trail races that have multiple loops, I used to figure out how well I was doing by how long it took the winners to lap me!<br /><br />I just started with the erg a few months ago. I'm slowly getting better, but I doubt it's my times that you are looking at that are making you feel slow! I don't even try to compare myself to the top of the list. I just keep on making progress a little bit at a time.

[[old] H33]

Olympic and World Class athletes look like aliens to me. I saw a bunch of them right up close at a track meet. They looked so different and just radiated energy. <br /><br />When I was 17 in 1975 (and totally disconnected from reality) I thought I could take a stab at the mile in college. While being fitted for running shoes I asked this apparent college athlete what a decent mile time was. "Sub 4". Haha, poof!<br /><br />I did go on to run cross country but was very mediocre and was always last or next to last. My best mile was a 4:37 (as part of a 5 mile run) and my best 10 mile run was 57:03. Great times for an enthusiast but not in college.