42195 Meters...tough, Very Tough.

[old] KMurphy · Post by **[old] KMurphy** » October 21st, 2004, 5:04 pm

Just to chim my 2 cents in. That physics of erging was comparing a dynamic (real boat) to a static erg. The "on slides" doesn't appear to me to be the same type of dynamic. IE in the article they discussed the fact of the boat and rowers moving in opposite directions. IE both move. If you look at rowers on slides only the erg moves. The rower does not. This is static rowing the same was off slides except that you have switched which mass is moving. So the maths about the center of mass changing dont seem to apply. At best you can try and say something about a change in power or whatever based on the fact that the erg and rower normally dont weight exactly the same. Though if such a difference exists its is smaller than that of the difference between a dynamic and static situation. The small differences shown probably have more to do with if the various rowers had small technique shifts caused by lack of practice on the slides and things like on slides you are not getting the same air flow to evaporate sweet as you get on the static rowing so without fans etc you might build up body heat faster and dehydrate faster on slides than off. So to me there is no evidence to show either if slides help or hinder times or if so by how much, though it seems clear to me it would be less then for dynamic vs static since both masses on slides aren't moving back and forth. KMurphy

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » October 21st, 2004, 10:12 pm

Xeno your a legend and your time is inspiring ... only thing that would make it better was if you were a Kiwi As to the petty position some people have taken in trying to belittle your effort ... screw them and forget them, they aint worth the enegy. Yes that is you John ... Paul S ... go hard take no prisoner (singular), but make it quick .... pleeeease. - George ps: Way to go Kenneth ... sounds all very reasonable to me, please drop me an e-mail in English

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » October 21st, 2004, 10:13 pm

Sorry got agitated and sent twice

[old] grandslam · Post by **[old] grandslam** » October 21st, 2004, 11:45 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (John Rupp @ Oct 20 2004, 03:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Sir Pirate, Your response is misleading. There is a MAJOR difference between slide and erg times. For someone of Xeno's weight the difference is somewhere around 10 minutes for the marathon distance. </td></tr></table> Don't encourage this clown. He can't back up his absurd statements, and it is probably best to just ignore his rants. He's never even been on slides, hasnt done any research or study of his own, and just seems to want to talk out his a . . . oh never mind. I'll get in trouble with the list cowboy . Fantastic job Xeno. As a marathon and ultramarathon runner, I can assure you that you will bring that time down with fuel management if you are ever insane enough to try it again. Sorry I couldn't join you for this one. Simply amazing. Jeff Sauter

[old] grandslam · Post by **[old] grandslam** » October 21st, 2004, 11:53 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (PaulS @ Oct 20 2004, 06:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Bad dog! Next time go outside. Don't make me roll up a magazine. </td></tr></table> ROFL!!! Oh man . . . I about spewed my coffee! I couldn't have said it better myself. Look, I'm new compared to many here, but what's the story with this guy? I mean, judging by his posts, and I'm not trying to flame here, just understand whats up, because he posts quite a bit and is allowed to stay on . . . so is he mentally challenged and you all feel sorry for him or what? Do you often have to smack him with a paper to keep him in line? Just curious, Jeff Sauter

[old] KMurphy · Post by **[old] KMurphy** » October 22nd, 2004, 1:12 am

Xeno This row of yours if very inspiring to me as I started a month ago with the thought that rowing would be a great way to improve my CV fitness. Here you just rowed 42K+ at a pace that is currently a tad faster then my PB 500m pace! Though I will never approach your times I can easily see I can become MUCH more fit than I am today and that rowing can get me there. Congrats again on an awesome row. KMurphy

[old] Canoeist · Post by **[old] Canoeist** » October 22nd, 2004, 8:30 am

Congratulations Xeno on your first marathon! Next time, reread the following post and you will be able to cut out at least 8.9 seconds from your time. This marathon, you started out just a little too fast, and you didn't drink early and drink often. You need to keep a large supply of fuel for the engine. If you feel you need the energy, it is too late because some time is needed for the fuel to get into your bloodstream. Don't drink water. Drink something loaded with energy. You burn over 3,000 calories in a marathon, so your blood energy level will drop very low if not replentished often. Xeno, don't let the rantings of Mr. Rupp (The "Truth Pointer Outer") belittle your achievement until he rows a 2:30 marathon without slides. When Mr. Rupp calls me a "crybaby", "cheater", etc. , I take it as a compliment knowing that it comes from such an esteemed source. Keep promoting the slides. They are really great, but very few rower/ergers are using them. Cheers, Paul Flack ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted: Sep 25 2004, 11:52 AM I suggest that you start off at a mid 1:40s pace then. You don't want your heart rate to go over 70% for the first hour. I think a pace of 1:46 will get you just under 2 1/2 hours. After pulling the first 3/4 of the marathon at 1:45, you can see the end and pull harder if you think you can. What you don't want to do in the marathon is to start out too fast and die a long and miserable death at the end in front of a big crowd of spectators. You will learn a lot about pacing in your first marathon. Leave the record setting to your second one! Don't forget that you need to learn how to gulp down a bit of drink every 5K without losing much speed! Good luck, Paul Flack (former M40+ UK marathon record holder)

[old] Canoeist · Post by **[old] Canoeist** » October 22nd, 2004, 8:46 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Xeno @ Oct 20 2004, 05:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> At three occasions I wanted to quit during the piece: At 29K to go, at 19k to go and at 13K to go. The last one was the toughest.  </td></tr></table> If you were thinking of quitting after rowing only 45 minutes, you were in real trouble. You must have had a huge amount of determinatination to finish! On my best marathons, my heart rate is up to 75% at the one hour mark. The row feels easy and relaxed at that point. My log book shows 16,449 meters covered in the first hour with a HR of 153 bpm on my way to a 2:34:29 marathon. Cheers, Paul Flack

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » October 22nd, 2004, 4:34 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (KMurphy @ Oct 21 2004, 02:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Just to chim my 2 cents in. If you look at rowers on slides only the erg moves. The rower does not. This is static rowing the same was off slides except that you have switched which mass is moving.  </td></tr></table> That is true to some extent though the rower is also moving on slides, just not so much as the erg. One's weight must be moved entirely on the erg, whereas on the slides the erg weight is moved one direction while the rower's weight is moved (less) in the other, i.e. 62 pounds is moved in one direction on the slides, while this is balanced by the "mass" of the rower in the other. For a rower weighing 248 pounds, that is 8 times the difference moving the rower's mass up the slide with each stroke. This result is regardless of some idiot's insecurities, for example GeorgeD and some other fools who don't have the capacity for rational thinking. In such case it is easier for them to slap the erg or fall down or toss a newspaper when there is no other possibility for rational expression. However the only thing that matters is what happens in reality. Some have hopped on slides and with little practice to get used to them found a 6% improvement in their times, as compared to an erg without slides. For a big person like Xeno, that is at least a 10 minute difference in a marathon.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » October 22nd, 2004, 4:45 pm

Paul, Since you mentioned the cheating thing I want to clarify my outlook about that. C2 allows slide times in the regular rankings, so officially that is not considered to be cheating. As you defined this before and I accepted your viewpoint, thus I agree that putting slide times in the rankings is not cheating, from the viewpoint of C2 recognizes the times in the same place from their rules. However, my personal viewpoint is that taking deceptive advantage of competitors is indeed cheating, especially when this is done in a blantantly deceptive manner. I have no problem with someone not knowing the difference or just prefering the slides and putting their times in the rankings -- although that is still not a FAIR thing to do. It is up to C2 to make it fair by at least noting slide times IN the rankings, and not just in the profiles, or else by making a seperate ranking for them. However, I don't agree with using that system to be deceptive and cheat competitively. Thus there is a distinction here. Perhaps that distinction is lost on you but regardless, it is how I feel about the matter. Cheers.

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » October 22nd, 2004, 6:47 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (John Rupp @ Oct 23 2004, 09:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> This result is regardless of some idiot's insecurities, for example GeorgeD and some other fools who don't have the capacity for rational thinking.  </td></tr></table> Thanks John you just made my day .... needed a good laugh and I guess your it. Tks

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » October 22nd, 2004, 8:49 pm

Thank you for the pacing information. Now that my glut is not that soar anymore I am looking forward to another one. Holding it at 1:46 is not a bad idea. It is almost hard to hold yourself back in the first part of the marathon. But I have learned my lesson. The missing carbs during the piece was a foolish move on my behalf. We should get together and row a marathon at the Iron Oarsman! That would be cool. Thank you Kiwis for your input. By the way does everybody know that Rob Waddell is coming to visit me for a camp in November? Being part of the board brings me new subjects to talk about. You are very inspiring and bring me material to talk to people about indoor rowing. Seems like the marathon really hit a particular note. There must be something mystical about the marathon. In a way I prefer the marathon to 2k. I always felt that I was more Diesel than Nitro. I better gear up with a turbo charger if I want to get back into the 2k game on the water... we will see what the future holds. I appologize for jumping around different subjects...duty is calling. XENO www.gorow.com

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » October 22nd, 2004, 10:28 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (John Rupp @ Oct 22 2004, 08:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> For a rower weighing 248 pounds, that is 8 times the difference moving the rower's mass up the slide with each stroke.  </td></tr></table> Hold on a moment there, I recall that you were a proponent of "trading weight for pace" and arguing that being heavier was an advantage all unto itself. Now you are proposing that NOT moving weight around is the advantage. Which is it? (Neither in fact. But Shirley, you have to choose one of your theories, don't you?) It would seem that you will sway any direction that allows you to insult the performances of anyone who happens to not be you. Serioulsy, when someone is doing a full marathon at a faster pace than you can hold for 2k, what possible objective can you have by tossing about unfounded concerns regarding the performance. If you put half the energy that you spend insulting others into your own workouts, I have no doubt that you would make some headway. It would have been wise for you to have stopped when asked, there may have been a bit of doubt regarding your unique insights, however you have indeed removed all doubt at this point. Good luck in the future. - Paul Smith PS - No BS!

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » October 22nd, 2004, 10:56 pm

at the time of the piece I weighed 234 pounds

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » October 22nd, 2004, 11:32 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Xeno @ Oct 23 2004, 01:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Thank you Kiwis for your input.  </td></tr></table> Xeno, as others have said on this site and the UK one, that the chance to be able to 'mix' with the likes of yourself and Dwayne and others who are not only superb athletes at the top of their sports but such self-efacing people make participation in ths sport so exciting. To be able to interact is my privalge ... so thank you form 'Down under' - George

Concept2 Forum

42195 Meters...tough, Very Tough.

General

General

General

General

General

General

General

General

General

General

General

General

General

General

General