Do Less Aerobic Exercise...opinions

[old] peeb · Post by **[old] peeb** » August 18th, 2005, 2:38 pm

Yes well I probably do not need to tell you that I was like the cat that got the cream when I got those results. My doctor was very surprised. Here are things that I did, I found everything in this list by googling - 1. I eliminated milk from my diet. I was already on low-fat milk, but I found some web pages that said homogenized milk is especially bad for cholesterol, so I switched to soy milk. 2. Hydration - I drink a big glass of water with breakfast and a couple of big glasses every evening. Some sites say that high cholesterol is a natural response to dehydration. Not backed up by real science but easy to do anyway. 3. I now eat an avocado every day, macadamia nuts, pecan nuts, blueberries (frozen makes it easy). In general unsaturated fats are now reckoned to be good for cholesterol, and those particular foods have all been show to reduce cholesterol by about 5%. This is all real science. 4. I have some coconut on my breakfast cereal every day. This is not reckoned to be good by real science. But a lot of the alternative health sites are keen on it, and I was somehow swayed. Apart from that I kept at my current exercise regime - I was already exercising 5-6 times per week. And I reduced a lot my processed food back in January, so I was already low on that, but I have kept to it. This is all very anecdotal of course, and it's hard to draw any hard conclusions from it, but *something* worked. I was also shocked by some of the things that I read along the way about the big food and drug corporations, if it's still possible to be shocked. For example in one of the two major studies that is usually cited to show that statins reduce heart disease, overall mortality rate remained the *same* because people died of cancer instead. But this study is still cited as evidence that statins can be beneficial for heart disease and the cancer effect is not quoted - disgraceful really, you can see why I started to get a more sympathetic ear for the alternative web sites. you read some interesting things there! Paul. p.s. I don't want to give the wrong impression - I am not anti-science, but I am pro allowing alternative viewpoints, and not trying to legislate them away. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(dneiss @ Aug 18 2005, 12:23 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I decided not to take the statins, did my best to incorporate all the good info into a new diet and to eliminate info which seemed outlandish, and when my LDL cholesterol was retested last week, it was 97, a reduction of 40 odd percent. </td></tr></table> Wow Paul, those are really great results. I'm in the same boat as you and had just about exact same LDL level. Can you provide any more details on amount of your exercise & specific diet changes that you did to get those results? </td></tr></table>

[old] gibbo1969 · Post by **[old] gibbo1969** » August 22nd, 2005, 5:08 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(peeb @ Aug 18 2005, 09:18 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I would like to put in a contrary opinion and a vote in favor of lunatic web sites. In Feb this year, my LDL cholesterol level showed up at 135. My doctor told me it should be below 100 because of family history, scheduled a retest for April, and said we would decide what to do then. My retest showed 137 and my doctor prescribed statins. Well I started trawling the internet about cholesterol. I found out firstly that my doctor was not so good because he should have told me to try to change diet first (he did not) and because statins have potentially dangerous side effects (he did not tell me that). Secondly that the majority of people on the US medical board that set the cholesterol levels had some funding coming from the drug corporations, and that the current levels were disputed by some scientists, who suggested that it basically was a sales strategy for the drug companies. I also found out diet can change cholesterol by maybe average 15% so not really enough for me. And I found a list of foods that can lower cholesterol by 5-6 percent - avocados, nuts. And I found other suggestions that were not backed up by published research as ways to improve cholesterol - good hydration, coconut oil. I decided not to take the statins, did my best to incorporate all the good info into a new diet and to eliminate info which seemed outlandish, and when my LDL cholesterol was retested last week, it was 97, a reduction of 40 odd percent. My point is - yep some of the stuff on the internet is complete crap, but it is still an unbeatable way to get info. And while some of the non-mainstream science is crap, some of the mainstream science (in diet/health) is driven more by commercial concerns than altruism. So you need the alternative stuff - consumer groups, or outraged people who got the wrong drugs and are complaining, or snake oil salesman who are trying to cotton onto an idea that might actually be good, or raw-fooders who tell you that you can lower your cholesterol by 40% by diet alone etc etc. Inevitably part of that is loonies like Dr Wong but that's inevitable and I can live with it as long as I get a range of opinions and I can use my own judgement - mainstream health opinions alone are not enough, long live the dr wongs! Paul. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Citroen @ Aug 4 2005, 09:45 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(akit110 @ Aug 4 2005, 02:50 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I wouldn't be too dismissive about PhDs. The vast majority of scientific research globally - even in the biosciences - is being conducted by individuals with PhDs including the field of exercise physiology. I work in an industry with plenty of PhDs and MDs in the workforce; I have noticed - by and large - that PhDs tend to have a much greater research orientation (i.e. scientists) than most MDs (i.e. clinicians). On the other hand, the number of programs and schools offering PhDs is almost limitless whereas the training, standards, and curriculum for MDs is typically far more regulated in most countries. </td></tr></table> I don't dismiss all PHDs. It's the case where a scientist is selling himself in a clinical role that should be outlawed. There's a disclaimer on his website, but who bothers to read; let alone, take note of those disclaimers any more. Here in Europe they have just implemented legislation to restrict the sale of vitamins, minerals and health supplements. <a href='http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4670971.stm' target='_blank'>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4670971.stm</a> I suspect he'd be controlled by that legislation. </td></tr></table> </td></tr></table> Yes. I too was diagnosed with hyper cholestralima or however you spell it last year. My doctor to his credit told me to avoid drugs if I could help it and just change my diet. This I have done and although I already eat a pretty good diet I reduced mine from 7.3 to 4.4 quite easily. Avocados and almonds were my secret weopons.

[old] peeb · Post by **[old] peeb** » August 22nd, 2005, 9:41 am

Right, some general advice is reduce saturated fats but be sure to replace them with mono-unsaturated fats - avocados are a good source, ditto all nuts. I still have saturated fats in my diet - butter and cheese (in moderation) regularly, and yogurt - but my cholesterol is down anyway. Paul. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(gibbo1969 @ Aug 22 2005, 04:08 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(peeb @ Aug 18 2005, 09:18 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I would like to put in a contrary opinion and a vote in favor of lunatic web sites. In Feb this year, my LDL cholesterol level showed up at 135. My doctor told me it should be below 100 because of family history, scheduled a retest for April, and said we would decide what to do then. My retest showed 137 and my doctor prescribed statins. Well I started trawling the internet about cholesterol. I found out firstly that my doctor was not so good because he should have told me to try to change diet first (he did not) and because statins have potentially dangerous side effects (he did not tell me that). Secondly that the majority of people on the US medical board that set the cholesterol levels had some funding coming from the drug corporations, and that the current levels were disputed by some scientists, who suggested that it basically was a sales strategy for the drug companies. I also found out diet can change cholesterol by maybe average 15% so not really enough for me. And I found a list of foods that can lower cholesterol by 5-6 percent - avocados, nuts. And I found other suggestions that were not backed up by published research as ways to improve cholesterol - good hydration, coconut oil. I decided not to take the statins, did my best to incorporate all the good info into a new diet and to eliminate info which seemed outlandish, and when my LDL cholesterol was retested last week, it was 97, a reduction of 40 odd percent. My point is - yep some of the stuff on the internet is complete crap, but it is still an unbeatable way to get info. And while some of the non-mainstream science is crap, some of the mainstream science (in diet/health) is driven more by commercial concerns than altruism. So you need the alternative stuff - consumer groups, or outraged people who got the wrong drugs and are complaining, or snake oil salesman who are trying to cotton onto an idea that might actually be good, or raw-fooders who tell you that you can lower your cholesterol by 40% by diet alone etc etc. Inevitably part of that is loonies like Dr Wong but that's inevitable and I can live with it as long as I get a range of opinions and I can use my own judgement - mainstream health opinions alone are not enough, long live the dr wongs! Paul. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Citroen @ Aug 4 2005, 09:45 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(akit110 @ Aug 4 2005, 02:50 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I wouldn't be too dismissive about PhDs. The vast majority of scientific research globally - even in the biosciences - is being conducted by individuals with PhDs including the field of exercise physiology. I work in an industry with plenty of PhDs and MDs in the workforce; I have noticed - by and large - that PhDs tend to have a much greater research orientation (i.e. scientists) than most MDs (i.e. clinicians). On the other hand, the number of programs and schools offering PhDs is almost limitless whereas the training, standards, and curriculum for MDs is typically far more regulated in most countries. </td></tr></table> I don't dismiss all PHDs. It's the case where a scientist is selling himself in a clinical role that should be outlawed. There's a disclaimer on his website, but who bothers to read; let alone, take note of those disclaimers any more. Here in Europe they have just implemented legislation to restrict the sale of vitamins, minerals and health supplements. <a href='http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4670971.stm' target='_blank'>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4670971.stm</a> I suspect he'd be controlled by that legislation. </td></tr></table> </td></tr></table> Yes. I too was diagnosed with hyper cholestralima or however you spell it last year. My doctor to his credit told me to avoid drugs if I could help it and just change my diet. This I have done and although I already eat a pretty good diet I reduced mine from 7.3 to 4.4 quite easily. Avocados and almonds were my secret weopons. </td></tr></table>

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Do Less Aerobic Exercise...opinions

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