Do Less Aerobic Exercise...opinions

[[old] tditmar]

<a href='http://www.totalityofbeing.com/Archived ... ticles.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.totalityofbeing.com/Archived ... les.htm</a>

[[old] LandLocked]

When I see something like that I ask “what are they selling” and it looks like vitamins, supplements & ½ baked theories.

[[old] DavidW]

This is just one of many superb quotes from this article:<br />"We will add insult to injury here by relating the statistic that after 20+ years of the "aerobics" craze, the couch potatoes are living as long or longer than their marathoning cousins"<br /><br />I'm sorry? WTF? <br /><br />To say that because the odd marathon runner has died of a heart attack must mean that long duration aerobic exercise is bad for you is just crap. There is no control group. The percentage of marathon runners vs. the percentage of sedentary individuals suffering from heart attacks has, of course, been totally neglected from this so called "scientific study".<br /><br />It's a shame that so many people believe this crap just because the guy has a PHD.<br /><br /><br /><br />

[[old] Yoda1]

David,<br /><br />Boy, did you hit the nail on the head. Your last sentence says it all. This is one of my pet peeves. Some years ago, when I was still competing, a professor at a state university did a study on pain and whether a person could perform at his best when he was in some degree of pain. They had 3 young college students that were into lifting perform the bench press max for each of them. Then they strapped a ball bearing to each of the shin bones while they were trying to duplicate their best bench press. This airhead professor and his assistant wrote a paper about how pain impacted the performance of all athletes and purely because of pain they would never reach their ultimate performance level. For two years many of us in the weight game talked about that paper. I can't tell you the number of newbies questioned us as to whether or not the would be able to reach full potential just because of that damn paper. <br /><br />Just because a person has a bunch of letters after his name doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about. Look at it this way. Half of the practicing doctors in the world graduated in the LOWER half of their classes.<br /><br />Yoda

[[old] gibbo1969]

what a crock of crap. I have been involved in the health and fitness industry for many years running health clubs and am a qualified PT. There is a lot of this bollox being talked at present and it really makes me ashamed to be part of an industry that is so full of half - truths and bullshit.<br />This kind of stuff just helps convince the majority of the poulation that exercise is far too much like hard work and it could kill me anyway so i best just eat pizza and watch the TV.<br />My dad and uncle both died at 70 within 2 weeks of each other. My Dad lead quite a clean life, didnt smoke, drunk in moderation ,watched what he eat and exercised modearatly. My uncle smoked 60 fags a day, eat fry ups very day, drunk like a fish and would drive to the end of the street to buy fags.<br />You could argue - well they both lived the same time - why not enjoy yourself and drink and smoke and eat crap?<br />The reality is though, whilst my dad lived a full active life and woke up every day feeling great (until cancer got him), my uncle spent the last 20 years of his life in and out of hospital and could not get up the stairs without having a coughing fit.<br /><br />As the old saying goes - "118% of all statistics are wrong"

[[old] Galt]

ignore this one...

[[old] Galt]

Been having trouble entering this post so please bear with any problems.<br /><br />I am 53 and have been doing aerobic stuff for about 35 years, and the last point is the key one with me. It is not how long you live, but how you feel while you are living.<br /><br />By the way, even though I have comcentrated on cycling for most of my life, and that is one great exercise, I find the erg to be even a better way to go. I live in Boulder and am surrounded by fitness nuts, so one always feels a little inferior here. Since we got our erg in February, and subsequently joined the local on water rowing club, I am continually amazed at how fit the erg keeps me. I try to do 4 or 5 good rows per week, and the thing keeps my pulse in the mid 50s here at 5300 feet altitude. It also keeps me much more toned than I would have thought.<br /><br />Good luck.<br />

[[old] akit110]

"It's a shame that so many people believe this crap just because the guy has a PHD."<br /><br />The real reason people are prone to believe that crap is that it supports them having to do less (i.e. exercise) rather than more. That is, we believe what we want to believe. <br /><br />

[[old] Citroen]

<!--QuoteBegin-akit110+Aug 3 2005, 08:45 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(akit110 @ Aug 3 2005, 08:45 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"It's a shame that so many people believe this crap just because the guy has a PHD."<br /><br />The real reason people are prone to believe that crap is that it supports them having to do less (i.e. exercise) rather than more.  That is, we believe what we want to believe. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />They also forget that a PhD isn't an MD, but the clown spouting all this crap still gets to call himself Doctor. It probably goes along the lines of "Doctor Quack told me if I drink this horse piss [*] I won't need to do any exercise." "Get me a beer glass I feel a need for a glass of cool refreshing horse piss right now."<br /><br />[*] Can I use that term on a family forum without offending anyone? If not please read it as "snake oil".

[[old] Porkchop]

<!--QuoteBegin-Citroen+Aug 3 2005, 06:41 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Citroen @ Aug 3 2005, 06:41 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-akit110+Aug 3 2005, 08:45 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(akit110 @ Aug 3 2005, 08:45 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"It's a shame that so many people believe this crap just because the guy has a PHD."<br /><br />The real reason people are prone to believe that crap is that it supports them having to do less (i.e. exercise) rather than more.   That is, we believe what we want to believe. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />They also forget that a PhD isn't an MD, but the clown spouting all this crap still gets to call himself Doctor. It probably goes along the lines of "Doctor Quack told me if I drink this horse piss [*] I won't need to do any exercise." "Get me a beer glass I feel a need for a glass of cool refreshing horse piss right now."<br /><br />[*] Can I use that term on a family forum without offending anyone? If not please read it as "snake oil". <br /> </td></tr></table><br />I'm offended that you would suggest defiling a beer glass . . .

[[old] akit110]

<!--QuoteBegin-Citroen+Aug 3 2005, 07:41 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Citroen @ Aug 3 2005, 07:41 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-akit110+Aug 3 2005, 08:45 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(akit110 @ Aug 3 2005, 08:45 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"It's a shame that so many people believe this crap just because the guy has a PHD."<br /><br />The real reason people are prone to believe that crap is that it supports them having to do less (i.e. exercise) rather than more.   That is, we believe what we want to believe. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />They also forget that a PhD isn't an MD, but the clown spouting all this crap still gets to call himself Doctor. It probably goes along the lines of "Doctor Quack told me if I drink this horse piss [*] I won't need to do any exercise." "Get me a beer glass I feel a need for a glass of cool refreshing horse piss right now."<br /><br />[*] Can I use that term on a family forum without offending anyone? If not please read it as "snake oil". <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I wouldn't be too dismissive about PhDs. The vast majority of scientific research globally - even in the biosciences - is being conducted by individuals with PhDs including the field of exercise physiology. I work in an industry with plenty of PhDs and MDs in the workforce; I have noticed - by and large - that PhDs tend to have a much greater research orientation (i.e. scientists) than most MDs (i.e. clinicians). <br /><br />On the other hand, the number of programs and schools offering PhDs is almost limitless whereas the training, standards, and curriculum for MDs is typically far more regulated in most countries. <br />

[[old] Citroen]

<!--QuoteBegin-akit110+Aug 4 2005, 02:50 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(akit110 @ Aug 4 2005, 02:50 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I wouldn't be too dismissive about PhDs.  The vast majority of scientific research globally - even in the biosciences - is being conducted by individuals with PhDs including the field of exercise physiology.  I work in an industry with plenty of PhDs and MDs in the workforce; I have noticed - by and large - that PhDs tend to have a much greater research orientation (i.e. scientists) than most MDs (i.e. clinicians).  <br /><br />On the other hand, the number of programs and schools offering PhDs is almost limitless whereas the training, standards, and curriculum for MDs is typically far more regulated in most countries. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I don't dismiss all PHDs. It's the case where a scientist is selling himself in a clinical role that should be outlawed. There's a disclaimer on his website, but who bothers to read; let alone, take note of those disclaimers any more.<br /><br />Here in Europe they have just implemented legislation to restrict the sale of vitamins, minerals and health supplements. <a href='http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4670971.stm' target='_blank'>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4670971.stm</a> I suspect he'd be controlled by that legislation.<br />

[[old] peeb]

I would like to put in a contrary opinion and a vote in favor of<br />lunatic web sites. In Feb this year, my LDL cholesterol level showed up at 135. <br />My doctor told me it should be below<br />100 because of family history, scheduled a retest for April, and <br />said we would decide what to<br />do then. My retest showed 137 and my doctor prescribed statins.<br /><br />Well I started trawling the internet about cholesterol. I found <br />out firstly that my doctor was not so good because he should have told<br />me to try to change diet first (he did not) and because statins have <br />potentially dangerous side effects (he did not tell me that). <br />Secondly that the majority of people on the US medical board <br />that set the cholesterol levels had some funding coming from the<br />drug corporations, and that the current levels were disputed<br />by some scientists, who suggested that it basically was a sales <br />strategy for the drug companies. <br />I also found out diet can change cholesterol by maybe average 15% so<br />not really enough for me. And I found a list of foods that can lower<br />cholesterol by 5-6 percent - avocados, nuts. And I found <br />other suggestions that were not backed up by published research<br />as ways to improve cholesterol - good hydration, coconut oil.<br /><br />I decided not to take the statins, did my best to incorporate all the<br />good info into a new diet and to eliminate info which seemed outlandish,<br />and when my LDL cholesterol was retested last week, it was 97,<br />a reduction of 40 odd percent.<br /><br />My point is - yep some of the stuff on the internet is complete crap,<br />but it is still an unbeatable way to get info. And while some of the non-mainstream<br />science is crap, some of the mainstream science (in diet/health) is driven<br />more by commercial concerns than altruism. So you need the alternative<br />stuff - consumer groups, or outraged people who got the wrong drugs and<br />are complaining, or snake oil salesman who are trying to cotton onto an<br />idea that might actually be good, or raw-fooders who tell you that you<br />can lower your cholesterol by 40% by diet alone etc etc. Inevitably part of that is <br />loonies like Dr Wong but that's inevitable and I can live with it as long<br />as I get a range of opinions and I can use my own judgement - mainstream<br />health opinions alone are not enough, long live the dr wongs!<br /><br />Paul.<br /><br /><br /><br /> <br /><br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin-Citroen+Aug 4 2005, 09:45 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Citroen @ Aug 4 2005, 09:45 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-akit110+Aug 4 2005, 02:50 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(akit110 @ Aug 4 2005, 02:50 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I wouldn't be too dismissive about PhDs.  The vast majority of scientific research globally - even in the biosciences - is being conducted by individuals with PhDs including the field of exercise physiology.  I work in an industry with plenty of PhDs and MDs in the workforce; I have noticed - by and large - that PhDs tend to have a much greater research orientation (i.e. scientists) than most MDs (i.e. clinicians).  <br /><br />On the other hand, the number of programs and schools offering PhDs is almost limitless whereas the training, standards, and curriculum for MDs is typically far more regulated in most countries. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I don't dismiss all PHDs. It's the case where a scientist is selling himself in a clinical role that should be outlawed. There's a disclaimer on his website, but who bothers to read; let alone, take note of those disclaimers any more.<br /><br />Here in Europe they have just implemented legislation to restrict the sale of vitamins, minerals and health supplements. <a href='http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4670971.stm' target='_blank'>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4670971.stm</a> I suspect he'd be controlled by that legislation. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />

[[old] dneiss]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I decided not to take the statins, did my best to incorporate all the<br />good info into a new diet and to eliminate info which seemed outlandish,<br />and when my LDL cholesterol was retested last week, it was 97,<br />a reduction of 40 odd percent.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Wow Paul, those are really great results. I'm in the same boat as you and had just about exact same LDL level. Can you provide any more details on amount of your exercise & specific diet changes that you did to get those results?

[[old] tditmar]

I tend to agree with peeb. I think I may be more skeptical of someone pushing drugs as an answer to problems vs someone pushing some method involving diet, vitamins, exercise, or other holistic methods. I fear drugs!<br /><br />What I was most curious about was high vs low intensity exercise and the effect on overall health.<br /><br />The other thing I am curious about is the effect of exercise tempo (for lack of a better way of putting it). For example, I run, erg, and lift as my primary ways of exercising. The tempo of erging however is very slow and methodical, really even at high intensity there are no real explosive movements. You can, however, be very explosive running and lifting. I am wondering what effect erging has on explosive muscles? On the days after I exercise, I walk the hallways of work feeling like the form of exercise I did the day before. If I run sprints, I feel like I could be fast and explosive, same after lifting. But on the days after I erg, I feel slower, less explosive, but like I could wrestle someone into submission. Is this all in my head, or is it a real effect of the exercise performed?