Time To Start Adding Weights??

[old] Clemson · Post by **[old] Clemson** » November 8th, 2004, 6:05 pm

About a year ago I started using RowPro-including the training plans. My average weekly meters went from 55-60K, to 30-40K sticking with the plan. At the same time I pretty much stopped making progress improving my PB's (currently 2K-7:16)-no improvement in over a year! At the same time, I am eating less, gaining some weight and watching my body fat actually increase! I just turned 40 this year-weigh 212 lbs and am 6'2" tall. My body fat % is now over 20%. What I am wondering is, should I add some weights into my schedule in lieu of days on the erg to try to reverse this backwards progress? Any ideas out there for me?

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » November 8th, 2004, 6:19 pm

Hi Clemson, my opinion would be to get the k's back up to 70+ a week, keep the intesity in the 65 - 75% range and forget the weights. I have lost weight, actually now have some shape (erging works the whole body, legs, abs, and upper body) - and best of all cardio wise I have not been stronger since my youth. Body fat is down to about 14-15% which I am told is pretty good as you get older. regds George

[old] gw1 · Post by **[old] gw1** » November 8th, 2004, 7:09 pm

Clemson, One training protocol does not work for all athletes / rowers. If you feel like supplementing your rowing with weight training go ahead. If you want to add swimming, a kick-boxing class or pilates go ahead. While the C2 is a great piece of equipment, IMO cross training with other training methods gives you a better balance. This is especially important if you play another sport. GW

[old] TheHagueDragon · Post by **[old] TheHagueDragon** » November 9th, 2004, 3:47 am

My fatpercentage was since january between 21 and 22%, my weight was 102 kg. Since 1,5 month i started with the erg, two times a week. My weight is now just below 100 kg so that's no big improvement. But my fat is now 18.3, that's better! I think it's because of my training with the erg. After training with the erg i do 15 minutes with the step trainer and some weight lifting.

[old] pamcnm · Post by **[old] pamcnm** » November 9th, 2004, 9:40 am

I think supplementing your rowing on the erg, with weight training, is a great idea. You will get the advantages of weight training exercise: just increasing your metabolism, improving bone density and aiding in injury prevention, as long as you are careful to use good form and not overdo getting started. When you do weight training you increase your lean musscle mass, and that process will speed up your metabolism. Muscles recovering from the work of strength training with weights, use more calories during the repair stage. Muscle also utilizes more calories than than fat for maintenence. Currently i add the following exercise to my routine 1-2X a week: Upper body: pushups bent over row dumbbell raise dumbbell lying lateral raise rotator cuff ext rotation assisted dip assisted pull-up Lower body: squat lunge leg press machine squat plie side leg raises on fit ball straight legged dead lift Ab exercises: fitball pull-in using legs reverse crunch on fitball prone leg extension on fitball fitball crunch using medicine ball back extension on fitball obliques on fitball stomach vacuums I do 8-20 reps per set and about 2 sets of each routine. I try to the abs 2X a week. I am finding when I increase my erg mileage and cut back on my strength training that I really miss it, and gain a few pounds to boot!

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » November 9th, 2004, 3:22 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (pamcnm @ Nov 10 2004, 02:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>You will get the advantages of weight training exercise: just increasing your metabolism, improving bone density and aiding in injury prevention,  </td></tr></table> I agree there are benefits to weight training but would disagree if the goal is to row faster (take sprints out of that comment), and even if it is to lose weight. By all means add it into your week for variety (if you need that from a mental aspect), BUT, if you want to row faster then 30-40 minutes on the erg is going to have a lot more benefit than weight training for the same period in my opinion. I have an article that I found recently that pulls info together from a number of sources on the effects of 'Resistance training on endurance events', if you want a copy drop me a PM with your e-mail address. regds George

[old] pamcnm · Post by **[old] pamcnm** » November 9th, 2004, 5:41 pm

I don't think the research shows that weight training necessarily does much to improve rowing times, and I didn't think I had said anything to suggest that. But weight training defintely aids in speeding up the metabolism. The process of breaking down and repairing muscle as it responds to the increased workload, requires increased calories, and muscles require more maintainence calories than fat does. I thought the question was about wanting to lose some weight? Did I misunderstand? I realize that the benefit of weight training to actual rowing performance is questionable. However, I think it does contribute to overall fitness in the ways noted, especially when performing complex movements.

[old] Clemson · Post by **[old] Clemson** » November 9th, 2004, 6:35 pm

Thanks everyone for their thoughts: My real goal is to get faster-I think my body fat increasing is a symptom of whatever is causing me to go slower. Hence, I want to train to get faster, not necessarily just to lose weight. Both at the same time would be nice, plus I know that I am quite a few full marathons removed from being at optimal body composition!

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » November 10th, 2004, 1:55 am

Hi Clemson, If you are doing that much cardio and are getting "fatter" so to speak - definitely throw in the weight work. Given what you are telling me there are a couple of things that might be happening. Your erging must not be very intense as a whole - high intensity CV work usually does not result in a lot of muscle mass loss - if anything it has an anabolic effect. What you are relating is more common with people who do long, lower intensity work - think the difference in physique between sprint track runners and marathon runners. You have to get your diet on point - up your protein intake, for one. Your symptons are also indicative of a lack of quality calories. The lack of weight work is what is giving carte blanche to your body's metabolic slowdown - long low intensity cardio DOES NOT STIMULATE TESTOSTERONE OR GROWTH HORMONE IN THE BODY. If anything, it suppresses it. The steady production of these two hormones are what keeps men young looking, healthy, lean, and STRONG. Heavy Lifting and High Intensity Cardio (e.g. 500-2000m interval pieces ) are the key. You need to start incorporating some of this work in your routine to stoke your bodies hormonal and metabolic engine. Try a 12 week cycle of heavy power movements (like bench press, squats, and deadlifts) and throw in some ballistic lifts (clean and jerk, push presses, snatch pulls) for good measure. After those 12 weeks you can ease into a maintenance routine - but if you do it right (i.e. train hard and eat right) you can easily shed a lot of fat and replace it with some nice hard muscle. During those 12 weeks you would presumably go easy on the rowing -( a couple of long recovery rows, and one high intensity row) - it's more to stimulate the top end part of your body's CV and CNS capacity before you settle back into a more regular rowing routine. Hope this helps, D

[old] Tom_Pinckney · Post by **[old] Tom_Pinckney** » November 16th, 2004, 10:55 am

Workouts should include: aerobics, weights, rest & a proper diet. One component that I have not seen mentioned in this thread is what you eat. If you are getting plenty of exercise and still gaining fat weight, you are eating too much or exercising too little. Calories are calories. Cut them back or increase your workouts and you will lose weight. It used to be that LSD (long slow distance) was recommended for weight loss. Yes, this does work. However, recent articles I have read indicate that intervals are better for weight loss. This is because of "carry-over' from the more strenuous exercise results in your body burning more calories at rest than LSD. For example: let's say you exercise (LSD) for a long period and burn 1000 calories. Next time, you do intervals and burn the same amount of calories in LESS time. Same amount of calories right? Yes, however, at rest, your metabolism is up higher from the more strenuous work and you will burn more calories after you exercise resulting in more weight loss. I like Pam's workout plan. Combining weights with an aerobic activity is a great way to remain in shape and lose weight at the same time. It also gives your body a chance to rest. I have been weight training seriously for about 20 years. In order to work at high intensity without wearing my body out I do the following: Day 1: Nordic Track; (weights) - Chest, shoulders, triceps Day 2: Row: (weights) - back & biceps Day 3: Bike: (weights) - legs (I bike this day because it is easier on the legs) Day 4: Rest By combining aerobic workouts that include your large body muscles with the same muscles in weight workouts the same day, I do not suffer overtraining because I never work the same muscles too frequently. You will also note that (although the entier body is worked during #1 &2) that the aerobic activities are basically stress-free on the body, but burn a lot of calories.

[old] RichardF49 · Post by **[old] RichardF49** » November 19th, 2004, 11:23 am

Greetings, Just a thought. Have you had your thyroid gland cked. Regards

[old] Yoda1 · Post by **[old] Yoda1** » November 21st, 2004, 9:02 pm

Having been around resistance training most of my life I have found that there is NO better way to complement and improve a person's performance. There are many people I train for sports other than rowing. (I'm just now starting rowing) Cycling, football, baseball, track, etc. Without some type of resistance training, a person will, in time, level off and not improve. Professional sports have proven time and time again the importance of supplement training. Having competed in both Olympic Lifting and Powerlifing I can only base my statements on myself and several other that have moved on to other sports. All will comment how much of that strength training has moved other to other endeavors. Of course, each of us has paid for taking the HEAVY resistance training well beyond what most would consider moderate. As time has passed and with growing older we find that we've made mistakes. One of my mistakes was taking strength training to the extreme. Many years ago I was introduced to a training protocol called "Super Slow". Perhaps some of you know of it. This is the protocol that is presently being used with the Olympic Cycling Team. And it is proving to be the safest and most productive protocol for them. I have been using Super Slow for many years and can attest to it's value. I wonder how many of you know of or even use this method of training to help your performance in rowing. Hey this is just my opinion, but if anyone is interested, just yell. I'll be happy to pass on as much as I can. Yoda

[old] Tom_Pinckney · Post by **[old] Tom_Pinckney** » December 3rd, 2004, 12:34 pm

Wondering how Super Slow is any better than any other method? Obviously, one would have to cut back on the weight. Seems to me that this would cut back on muscle development but a safer method of lifting. It also seems to me that "Super Slow" would be quite boring. Is this type of work out for everybody? Thanks

[old] Coach Gus · Post by **[old] Coach Gus** » December 3rd, 2004, 2:05 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Tom_Pinckney @ Dec 3 2004, 08:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Wondering how Super Slow is any better than any other method?  </td></tr></table> I've read a couple of studies where doing one set of 8 reps very slowly caused participants to be significantly stronger over the test period than those lifting lighter weights in mulitiple sets. If I remember correctly, the difference was a little over 20%. That's a pretty big difference over the the 4 month period I think the testing was done.

[old] Yoda1 · Post by **[old] Yoda1** » December 3rd, 2004, 4:14 pm

Tom and Coach, You're both right. Tests have reflected strength gains greater than traditional lifting. And you do have to reduce the weight that would normally be used as in traditional training. Back in the fifties when strength training was first being used by proffesional athetles the only thing that was proven was that you got stronger and a little bigger. There was no history to this type of training other than the old time strongmen. So, everyone did their own thing. Now, a lot of years have passed and a lot of studies have been done. Concequently we have a base to make decisions from. The number of exercise protocols are endless. But over the last 20 years the one protocol that keeps surfacing is Super Slow. I believe the reason for it not being used by more people is because of it's difficulty. Yet although it is difficult, it is the safest protocol that I've ever encounter. It is also the toughest. It requires tremendous focus and control. It is brief and it will flat kick your butt when done correctly. A person can workout once a week for about 30-40 minutes and make gains for years without injury. It is ideal for old and well as young. What makes it so productive is that by doing and exercise at the rate of 20 seconds per rep, you've removed the momentum. By removing the momentum you are forcing the muscles to do the job. Stop and think about it. With traditional training a person would probably do 3 sets of 8 per exercise. Let's say that each rep took 4 seconds. The actual inroad time for that set would be 32 seconds. Take that times the number of sets (3) and you have a total of 96 seconds of inroad time. And you are taking a short rest, let's say 1 minute between the sets. With SS, you would only doing one set of 6 reps. Each reps takes 20 seconds and that would equal 120 seconds of inroad time without rest. This takes the intensity wwwaaaayyyyy up. This is why one or not more than two workouts per week is recommended when just starting. And after a couple weeks, definitely not more once a week. You see the way a person gains is with the recovery from working out. If a person wishes to make strength gains they have to allow themselves time to recover from the last workout. After doing SS for a few months, many people only workout every 10 days or in some cases as little as once every two weeks. Most of us are not powerlifters, yet many times when a person goes to the gym, it is the traditional methods that are taught. SS is as difficult to teach as it is to learn. I know cause this is the system that I use with my clients. I spent many, many years training for hours on end with the traditional protocols. Did I get stronger? Yes, I did. Am I paying for going to the extreme? Yes, I am. So, for those of you that wish to use the traditional methods, I say have at it. But the years of experience have taught me that for me, SS is the safest, most productive exercise protocol out there. Now, get out there and move some iron. Yoda

Concept2 Forum

Time To Start Adding Weights??

Health and Fitness

Health and Fitness

Health and Fitness

Health and Fitness

Health and Fitness

Health and Fitness

Health and Fitness

Health and Fitness

Health and Fitness

Health and Fitness

Health and Fitness

Health and Fitness

Health and Fitness

Health and Fitness

Health and Fitness