Model D or E - Noise? Moving it internationally?

[roadlesstraveled]

Greetings! I stumbled across this forum while doing research on Concept 2 rowers and it's been a wealth of information, so thank you to all the knowledgeable folks who contribute to this forum.

I've decided to pull the trigger and spring for a Concept2, but am on the fence on whether to get the D or E. I've read some reviews and watched the comparison video on the Concept2 website. However, I have a couple of specific questions that I haven't been able to find an answer to. I will be moving internationally this summer, and with my job, I will move every 1-3 years. Is there any difference in how the models hold up to moving (packing, handled by movers, etc). I know both models are fairly easy to take apart for storage, but I'm not sure if moving with them makes a difference.

Second, is there a difference in the noise level for the two models? I've used a Model E at my gym here and didn't find it overly loud, especially compared to treadmills and ellipticals, but I'll be living in an apartment when I move overseas and will have to be cognizant of the noise for my downstairs neighbors.

In doing research, I saw a few people recommend using a mat or gym flooring tiles. Does anyone have a recommendation for a specific mat or gym flooring tiles?

[Citroen]

Keep the box and you'll have no trouble reboxing it regardless of whether it's a D or E.
http://www.concept2.com/files/pdf/us/in ... boxing.pdf
http://www.concept2.com/files/pdf/us/in ... boxing.pdf
Some airlines will take sporting equipment in the baggage hold.

[roadlesstraveled]

Thank you for the reboxing guides. I hadn't found those on the Concept 2 site, so that's very helpful. Fortunately, my employer will move my belongings for me, so they'll go by ocean freight when I move and I don't have to worry about managing with it on an airplane.

[Citroen]

I'd choose a D with a PM5 every time. It's like the difference between a regular Land Rover and a Hummer and in terms of price difference and rugged build.

The E's rail is 6 inches (15cm) higher and the monitor arm doesn't move, that's so the old folks in the gym can climb on easier and can lean on the monitor arm when they get off. They're also more rugged because of the bad treatment equipment gets in public gyms.

The D & E are comparable for amount of noise.

[roadlesstraveled]

Thank you, that's very helpful. I think that between taking it apart and reboxing it, and the durability,the D should manage the moving ok and if the noise is the same, then no reason to spend the extra $200 on the E. Thanks!

[sekitori]

I asked the neighbors below me if my Model D sitting on a carpeted floor was annoying them in any way. They told me it was producing a slight vibrating sensation which really wasn't very bothersome. I wanted to get rid of even this very mild annoyance. I purchased a 25 X 12 inch piece of extremely dense and solid one inch thick closed cell foam rubber to go on the floor underneath the flywheel section. It dampens the sound quite well. Over that I placed the same size piece of heavy duty 3/8 inch thick gym equipment mat to support the weight of the machine. The flywheel section sits on those mats.

I used the same padding measuring 22 x 11 inches under the rear of the monorail. Since the supporting bar at the end of the monorail measures about 13 x 2 inches, smaller pads would probably work just as well. Because the front of the Model D is much heavier than the rear, those pads are somewhat more compressed than the rear ones. But the difference between them is no more than 1/4 inch, so that doesn't really concern me.

This padding seems to isolate sound and vibration very well through the floor. I have had no complaints from the neighbors below me. The rower is quite stable on these pads and has not moved at all, no matter how hard I row. You could also purchase a pad similar to the one below for $59.99 from Amazon, but I doubt if it would be very effective. It's only about 1/4 inch thick and extends the entire length of the rower. Since only the very front and rear of the rower come in contact with the floor, there is no need for a full length mat, especially one so thin.

http://smile.amazon.com/Supermats-P-V-C ... g+machines

[roadlesstraveled]

Thank you, Sekitori. That's very helpful information. I'm glad to hear that the noise doesn't carry much and I'll check out some of the gym foam flooring tiles at Home Depot and see if I can find something similar to what you describe, to help with any noise or vibrations that might make it through the floor.

[Hollywood_Kuma]

The only reason to get a Model E is if you have mobility problems. If you are nimble enough to sit on the floor and get back up again, then you should unequivocally get a Model D.

The major downsides of the Model E are (i) additional expense, (ii) increased size (which makes it harder to live with), and (iii) a fixed monitor arm, so if you are the "wrong" height for that machine, there is nothing you can do. To this latter point, on the Model D the monitor arm moves, and therefore provides a full range of viewing angles for all rower shapes and sizes.

In answer to your specific questions:

(a) Both models use the same mechanism, so there is no difference in noise.

(b) Both models are built like tanks, and are fine for moving between continents (I spent much of my career as an ex-pat also, so I appreciate your concerns).

[rowbike]

Like others have noted, both the D and E have the same fan, rail and rowing components, so there is no difference there. The only compelling reason for the model E seems to be if you need the additional height. I don't have a model E myself, but from what I have seen on this board there appears to be some issue with the design where the legs can fail due to rust or general fatigue on the frame. The model D seems to not suffer from those issues.

[sekitori]

I don't have a model E myself, but from what I have seen on this board there appears to be some issue with the design where the legs can fail due to rust or general fatigue on the frame. The model D seems to not suffer from those issues.

There was a problem of metal fatigue on both Model D and E rowers shipped from August 1, 2006 to April 19, 2007. Very small cracks occurred in the frame under the foot stretchers. This design flaw was corrected by use of a reinforcing kit which was supplied by C2 at no charge.

I have heard of rust forming on C2's if they are kept outdoors for an extended period of time. But that can happen to any model, not just the E. If a rower is used exclusively indoors, rust formation shouldn't be a problem.

[roadlesstraveled]

Thank you all for the information. I've only ever used a Model E at my gym, so had not had a chance to compare the two models side by side. I don't have mobility issues, so it sounds like the Model D would be the best solution for me, since it sounds like the differences between the two models won't be problematic for me and no need to spend an extra $200 if I don't have to.

The rower will stay inside, so no worries about rust.

Thank you all again for your help. I appreciate it!

[rowbike]

I don't have a model E myself, but from what I have seen on this board there appears to be some issue with the design where the legs can fail due to rust or general fatigue on the frame. The model D seems to not suffer from those issues.

There was a problem of metal fatigue on both Model D and E rowers shipped from August 1, 2006 to April 19, 2007. Very small cracks occurred in the frame under the foot stretchers. This design flaw was corrected by use of a reinforcing kit which was supplied by C2 at no charge.

I have heard of rust forming on C2's if they are kept outdoors for an extended period of time. But that can happen to any model, not just the E. If a rower is used exclusively indoors, rust formation shouldn't be a problem.

The issue I saw was related to stress on the legs causing them to fail or come loose, not near the foot stretcher.

http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=14643&hilit

I've seen rust as a separate issue as well, but that may have been due to outdoor use.

[sekitori]

The issue I saw was related to stress on the legs causing them to fail or come loose, not near the foot stretcher.
http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=14643&hilit.

A post in the above topic states, "I have seen several posters mention that they have had issues with the Model E's frame stressing at the top of the rear leg to base attachment." That could possibly occur if the screws are not tightened as firmly as possible, but that's the fault of the individual, not Concept 2. Anyone using a piece of exercise equipment that has not been put together properly is asking for problems--possibly big ones.

To me, a single post stating the presence of a problem with only "mentions from other posters" to back it up means absolutely nothing and is absolutely worthless. If anyone has specific info that the Model E's frame can be stressed in the way mentioned above and that the fault is C2's, I would like to see it.

[Citroen]

It's unconfirmed hearsay. The recognised faults are listed here http://www.concept2.com/service/indoor- ... leshooting

[rowbike]

The issue I saw was related to stress on the legs causing them to fail or come loose, not near the foot stretcher.
http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=14643&hilit.

A post in the above topic states, "I have seen several posters mention that they have had issues with the Model E's frame stressing at the top of the rear leg to base attachment." That could possibly occur if the screws are not tightened as firmly as possible, but that's the fault of the individual, not Concept 2. Anyone using a piece of exercise equipment that has not been put together properly is asking for problems--possibly big ones.

To me, a single post stating the presence of a problem with only "mentions from other posters" to back it up means absolutely nothing and is absolutely worthless. If anyone has specific info that the Model E's frame can be stressed in the way mentioned above and that the fault is C2's, I would like to see it.

It's only a single post if you haven't bothered to search for the others. I put one for reference, but this was mainly for the person asking the original question about durability. I've seen other posts here about the topic, but don't remember if there is a real issue or isolated incidents of some sort, rust related, user assembly problems, etc. My assumption is that the original poster already has the info published by Concept 2, and they are asking for any additional insights here.

Why would people want to come to this forum and make the first post about a new issue if its dismissed as worthless? Maybe it is not the fault of Concept 2. Maybe the user did something wrong, but it is an issue for them none the less, and possibly one that others could encounter as well and learn from.

How many issues have been first identified on this board before Concept 2 becomes aware of them? I know I had to come to the forum for the issue I had where the fan blades scraped the mesh fan screen when my erg first arrived. I did not find it listed anywhere on the Concept 2 website as a known issue, yet I still had the problem, along with many others, and found discussion about the necessary repair in the forum.