PM3 gripe: resting = lost meters

[raisingmn]

During my marathon row last night, I became increasingly aggravated by the way the PM3 handles rests. I rowed 9:15 on, :45 rest - were the rest was spent standing, stretching, hydrating. Within a few seconds of getting off the erg, the PM3 decides that I've stopped rowing and stops the meters from rolling off - despite the fact that the fan is still spinning at considerable RPM. If I had rested on the erg while moving the handle just enough for the PM3 to recognize a stroke rate (this only takes a tiny amount of movement), I would have seen nearly 50m tick off each break. During my 3:04:24 marathon I took 17 breaks - which equal approximately 750 lost meters. In other words, because of the way the PM3 handles these rests, my row was 3 minutes longer than it could have been.

Any thoughts on why C2 chose to program the PM3 this way?

-Glen

[johnlvs2run]

You're right, and I've noticed this too.

With the monitor set for 42,195 meters, if you stop, the time keeps going but the meters stop in 6 seconds.
This gives you about 20 meters, instead of the 50 to 70 you'd get otherwise.

And now if you stop for 2 minutes, the monitor resets and the entire piece is for naught.

[ehagberg]

You're right, and I've noticed this too.

With the monitor set for 42,195 meters, if you stop, the time keeps going but the meters stop in 6 seconds.
This gives you about 20 meters, instead of the 50 to 70 you'd get otherwise.

You honestly think you'd coast for 50-70 meters if you were rowing on the water?

[raisingmn]

My point is that there is a significant amount of invested energy in the fan's momentum that is simply lost upon resting. The meters suddenly stop rolling off - there is no gradual deceleration. Whether or not the PM3 is boat-accurate is irrelevant. The "handle-wiggling" technique proves that the PM3 is capable of recording these low RPM meters, and is (unfortunately) necessary for anyone attempting a long-distance record.

-Glen

[ehagberg]

My point is that there is a significant amount of invested energy in the fan's momentum that is simply lost upon resting. The meters suddenly stop rolling off - there is no gradual deceleration. Whether or not the PM3 is boat-accurate is irrelevant. The "handle-wiggling" technique proves that the PM3 is capable of recording these low RPM meters, and is (unfortunately) necessary for anyone attempting a long-distance record.

-Glen

As the current owner of a sort of long distance record... without doing any wiggling of the handle while resting... I can verify that your assertion is wrong.

It might've helped a bit if I'd done that, but it isn't absolutely necessary.

[PaulS]

You're right, and I've noticed this too.

With the monitor set for 42,195 meters, if you stop, the time keeps going but the meters stop in 6 seconds.
This gives you about 20 meters, instead of the 50 to 70 you'd get otherwise.

You honestly think you'd coast for 50-70 meters if you were rowing on the water?

I think that coasting distance would be about right for a moving boat, in fact I see 40-50m quite often on my GPS, and I've set that to stop counting once the pace drops below a 4:00. However, why it might be the case on the Erg is that at least it provides a relative constant for those that choose to "take a break" during rowing a timed piece, and one thing that is very different than on the water is that from nearly the first stroke on an Erg you get up to speed, whereas it will take about 5 strokes to get the boat moving at the desired speed. Obviously, creditting oneself for 3 minutes better time than actually achieved is as ridiculous as claiming to be "as good as" anyone who is faster on the Erg based on Age, Weight, or Gender adjustments. i.e. You can either accomplish what someone else can, or you can't, simple as that.

If it bothers one so much, just continue to take a stroke once every 6 seconds while getting a drink, etc... and the PM will continue to tick off meters, albeit at a rate that is likely far less than what you might think, due to the ever decreasing power input taking place (which is how the "virtual" boat speed is derived). We chose 6 seconds as a "time-out" for ErgMonitor simply because it was what had already been done with the C2 PM.

[raisingmn]

I don't know how I can state my case any more clearly than I have in the previous two posts, so I won't. Instead, let me simply repeat the major points:

• Invested energy is totally lost once the PM3 reaches C2's arbitrary 6 second time-out.
• This can be prevented by a "handle-wiggle".
• "Handle-wiggle" hinders effective stretching during a break.
• All other things being equal, someone with good "handle-wiggle" technique will beat a competitor with poor "handle-wiggle" technique during any distance race requiring a break.
• Erg/boat comparisons are irrelevant.

-Glen

[johnlvs2run]

You honestly think you'd coast for 50-70 meters if you were rowing on the water?

No, you'd probably sink if you were rowing an erg on the water.

In a boat though, you could probably coast along all day without pulling the chain even once.

[PaulS]

I don't know how I can state my case any more clearly than I have in the previous two posts, so I won't. Instead, let me simply repeat the major points:

• Invested energy is totally lost once the PM3 reaches C2's arbitrary 6 second time-out.
• This can be prevented by a "handle-wiggle".
• "Handle-wiggle" hinders effective stretching during a break.
• All other things being equal, someone with good "handle-wiggle" technique will beat a competitor with poor "handle-wiggle" technique during any distance race requiring a break.
• Erg/boat comparisons are irrelevant.

-Glen

Let's address the original question first.
"Any thoughts on why C2 chose to program the PM3 this way?"

Sure, to aggravate someone who would actually bother to think about it to the point of aggravation.

At to the asdditional points.
- Not much "invested energy", 6 seconds of credit is probably 90% or more of what would be travelled.
- Try "handle wiggle" then, it won't produce what you think.
- Have a helper wiggle your handle for you.
- ALL other things are NEVER equal.
- Then the "instant stop" at 6 seconds is completely reasonable.

Nice Pic, did you draw it?

[ckaiserca]

Look at it this way. . .

If you had tried standing and stretching 17 times in a boat, your marathon would have taken a LOT longer than 3 hours and four minutes. . .

[Couch Potato]

Simple answer - Do NOT take a break. Train you butt/hands/back or whetever gives discomfort to require a break to go the full distance. No need to wiggle anything then!