D Model Handles

highertactics · Post by **highertactics** » September 18th, 2007, 6:57 pm

I just ordered two new model D rowers for my gym, and am a bit perplexed on the handles. After training on them, I have gotten blisters on my hands on three out of the the five times I have trained on them. I'm an MMA and personal trainer and do not have soft, uncalloused hands. I have trained on Concept rowers before and have never had a problem, but I don't know if the handles were different than the new Model D's. Is there any modifications that can be made/alternative handles that can be used? Is it just something that I need to break my hands into? Any suggestions would be helpful, I can't really afford to have my clients whose hands are very vital to them with blisters, etc. Thanks ahead of time for your input.

Citroen · Post by **Citroen** » September 18th, 2007, 9:50 pm

There are some folks who remove the model D blue hand grips and replace them with those nice comfy black grips from a model C (wooden) handle.

They're a tight fit but they will go on.

I don't know why C2 don't retro-fit the model C grips to the model D handle in the factory.

c2jonw · Post by **c2jonw** » September 19th, 2007, 8:40 am

The remake of the erg handle had a number of facets to it. We wanted to lengthen it and give it a bit of an angle to make it a little more like sculling, and for most people the downturned grip areas are more ergonomically friendly. We decided on a grip material that is durable, has good adhesion when moist and is easy to clean. The B & C black grips are an open cell foam that tends to get slippery when wet (slimey in some cases) and is difficult to clean. Lots of folks who were used to the old black grip went through an adjustment phase when they switched to the new handle, basically growing some new calluses to accomodate new pressure points. So maybe you just need to be a little patient with it. That said, it's easy to either put a grip of your choice on over the stock material or cut off the stock material before installing a different grip. Personally speaking, I found bicycle handlebar gel tape to work pretty well for longer rows, though being an open cell material it does not clean up very well. C2JonW

johnlvs2run · Post by **johnlvs2run** » September 19th, 2007, 11:20 am

I reverse tape the handle with thin nylon socks and duct tape, similar to wrapping with bicycle handlebar tape.

The thin nylon material gives me a nice light touch on the handle, no heat build up and no blisters.

This wouldn't be suitable for a gym but works well at home. I change the socks when they get dirty but they last quite a long time.

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » September 19th, 2007, 12:38 pm

c2jonw wrote:The remake of the erg handle had a number of facets to it. We wanted to lengthen it and give it a bit of an angle to make it a little more like sculling, and for most people the downturned grip areas are more ergonomically friendly. We decided on a grip material that is durable, has good adhesion when moist and is easy to clean. The B & C black grips are an open cell foam that tends to get slippery when wet (slimey in some cases) and is difficult to clean. Lots of folks who were used to the old black grip went through an adjustment phase when they switched to the new handle, basically growing some new calluses to accomodate new pressure points. So maybe you just need to be a little patient with it. That said, it's easy to either put a grip of your choice on over the stock material or cut off the stock material before installing a different grip. Personally speaking, I found bicycle handlebar gel tape to work pretty well for longer rows, though being an open cell material it does not clean up very well. C2JonW

I'm waiting for the revelation: "Downturned"

After having seen upside down Mod D handles in even a demonstration video.

Initially I found that dealing with the new angles meant changing the habit of holding the handle with my proximal knuckles at an angle to the handle (to get and angle when using the straight handle) to keeping the knuckles parallel with the new handle. This did initially cause new calluses to be formed, and in the worst case a few blisters popped up also. I'm not sure if the formula for the grip has been settled, but whatever is on the Machines from early 2007 has been a nice balance between hardness and gripability. Not quite the same as my preferred Croker sculling grips, but close enough.

How thick is the grip material on the Mod D handle? I don't want to go cutting one off just to find out. Is the underlying handle round?

c2jonw · Post by **c2jonw** » September 20th, 2007, 12:16 pm

The grip material is about .110 " (2.8 mm) thick. The underlying handle is round and is 1.25" (31.75 mm) in diameter. C2JonW

Citroen · Post by **Citroen** » September 20th, 2007, 2:17 pm

c2jonw wrote:The grip material is about .110 " (2.8 mm) thick. The underlying handle is round and is 1.25" (31.75 mm) in diameter. C2JonW

You Yankee engineers really should drop the imperial measures. Metric is so much more sane.

Wasn't there a Canadian aircraft that was nearly a disaster due to pounds vs litres (UK/US: liters).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider

c2jonw · Post by **c2jonw** » September 21st, 2007, 6:35 am

Not sure about that aircraft story, but there was a Mars explorer that crashed because of a mix up in metric vs english weight measures.

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msp98/news/mco990930.html

One might argue that those Yankee engineers should have dropped their metric measures. Imperial is so much more sane.....C2JonW

Yankeerunner · Post by **Yankeerunner** » September 21st, 2007, 8:11 am

I just recently replaced the original handle that came with my model D four years ago. I'd worn a big hole where my wedding ring is, and just got aggravated with the loose material around the hole.

The old handle was relatively smooth all around due to use compared to the new handle. Immediately upon using the new one I got blisters just as I had when switching from the model C to the D. As with the first time they were sore for about a week or two then gradually got better and no longer hurt.

I prefer the D handle nevertheless, mainly for the reason Jon stated. The old C handle would get too slippery on longer rows and I'd be gripping so hard that my wrists would sometimes hurt. No such problem with the D handle.

My advice would be to tough it out until the hands adapt. It's worth it.

Yankeerunner · Post by **Yankeerunner** » September 21st, 2007, 10:17 am

P.S. While Jon is around.....

Jon, do you have any figures on how many pounds of force are necessary to pull out the handle of a new machine? Whenever I go to BIRC or CRASH-B's the race machines always seem require more force to get the handle moving, compared to the warmup machines as well as my home machine and well-used gym machines.

If I knew the force required on a new handle I could presumably tighten the bungees on my old machine to match, couldn't I?

Rick

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » September 21st, 2007, 1:27 pm

Yankeerunner wrote:P.S. While Jon is around.....

Jon, do you have any figures on how many pounds of force are necessary to pull out the handle of a new machine? Whenever I go to BIRC or CRASH-B's the race machines always seem require more force to get the handle moving, compared to the warmup machines as well as my home machine and well-used gym machines.

If I knew the force required on a new handle I could presumably tighten the bungees on my old machine to match, couldn't I?

Rick

It's because you are in the early races of the day Rick, the bungees haven't been "broken in" quite yet.

6-8lbs is what I've typically measured for Bungee tension on relatively new machines. Higher for a few weeks, then lower from then on.

johnlvs2run · Post by **johnlvs2run** » September 21st, 2007, 3:35 pm

PaulS wrote:6-8lbs is what I've typically measured for Bungee tension on relatively new machines. Higher for a few weeks, then lower from then on.

That's got to have a significant affect on the time.

Is there a curve of how much the bungee tension decreases with usage?

My model B had 20 million meters in 9 years before it needed a bungee adjustment. My model C had 12 million meters in 2 years and the bungee was still tight, even though I always left the handle in ready position.

Rockin Roland · Post by **Rockin Roland** » September 22nd, 2007, 2:16 am

c2jonw wrote: We decided on a grip material that is durable, has good adhesion when moist and is easy to clean....... C2JonW

Is the material used on the C2 model D handle the same as that on the ends of your C2 sweep oar handles? Those bolt on plastic green handles on your sweep oars spoil what would otherwise be a good sweep oar. The total design of your sweep oar handles also makes it uncomfortable for those that like to row with a wide grip.

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » September 22nd, 2007, 8:55 am

Rockin Roland wrote:
c2jonw wrote: We decided on a grip material that is durable, has good adhesion when moist and is easy to clean....... C2JonW
Is the material used on the C2 model D handle the same as that on the ends of your C2 sweep oar handles? Those bolt on plastic green handles on your sweep oars spoil what would otherwise be a good sweep oar. The total design of your sweep oar handles also makes it uncomfortable for those that like to row with a wide grip.

It seems a little different to me, but I've only got some older oars to compare to a newer handle. The plastic oar material seems considerably harder, I'm not a big fan of it. Wood is fine, not much to improve on from there, IMO.

Yankeerunner · Post by **Yankeerunner** » September 22nd, 2007, 12:07 pm

PaulS wrote:
Yankeerunner wrote:P.S. While Jon is around.....

Jon, do you have any figures on how many pounds of force are necessary to pull out the handle of a new machine? Whenever I go to BIRC or CRASH-B's the race machines always seem require more force to get the handle moving, compared to the warmup machines as well as my home machine and well-used gym machines.

If I knew the force required on a new handle I could presumably tighten the bungees on my old machine to match, couldn't I?

Rick
It's because you are in the early races of the day Rick, the bungees haven't been "broken in" quite yet.

6-8lbs is what I've typically measured for Bungee tension on relatively new machines. Higher for a few weeks, then lower from then on.

Good point. Dang! It will only get worse as I get even older.

I'll have to seek out a spring scale with a hook to measure my home machine. Then look up the maintenance section on tightening the bungees and see if I dare to screw around with my machine.