Full disclosure: I'm the lead developer of
OpenRowingMonitor (ORM), an open source alternative for the PM5 (primarily aimed at machines that lack decent metrics). We had the opportunity to revisit any design decission C2 seems to have made (with the help of some great resources that paved the way). We had the benefit of looking at any monitor in the market (we are close friends with the EXR development team, which owns many machines). As we run on a full-fledged Raspberry Pi, we have a 4 core CPU, plenty of memory and access to incredible hardware.
So, see my comments as someone who followed in C2's footsteps, but was able to take a radically different approach at every turn (given our team, these are true debates and we are inclined to pushing the envelope).
SWE192 wrote: ↑August 8th, 2024, 4:09 pm
However, even two years ago, the PM5 felt somewhat dusted. The display, the UI, and connectivity to common devices are archaic. It reminds me of my HP RPN calculator from the 1980ies. Now, every time I row I think the PM5 is more obsolete than many more modern devices that have already passed into digital Nirvana.
A key thing to understand here is the intended key usage scenario of the monitor. A PM5 isn't designed to be used in a home scenario. It is designed to be part of a fleet of machines in a boathouse or in a gym. Fleet owners absolutely despise maintenance of any kind, especially if it puts machines out of commission. So the PM5 is clunky but extremely robust. I've seen PM3's survive decades of abuse and neglect, which is impressive by its own right.
The PM5 is so energy efficient it doesn't need a power cord, making the RowErg an extremely flexible device as it requires no outlets. For ORM you need a serious batterypack or a powercord.
Moving to a touchscreen might make the design more beautiful, but it is much less robust. Our standard config is a Raspberry Pi 4 with 7 inch touchscreen in an ABS case. One bad hit on the case and the screen is a goner.
Please also realise that the commercial price of a PM5 is about €180. For a RPi4, ABS case and 7' touchscreen, I pay around €200. We support a Raspberry Pi Zero 2W (resulting in a price drop of about €80), but the price of the screen and case are still considerable.
The latest RP3 Aqua has a gorgeous tablet mounted on it, and I am curious how fragile it is. As the machine is much more expensive than a C2, you can guess where the cost originate.
SWE192 wrote: ↑August 8th, 2024, 4:09 pm
I wish so much for a better, larger, more appealing display (e-ink?), more intuitive UE-optimized menus,
Again, this comes down to the usage scenarios. I think the key role of the PM5 is to provide essential information to the rower when jumping on it casually, but more advanced stuff should be done in the ErgData app. In that app you have the opportunity for more advanced scenarios.
Looking at ORM, we are moving the exact same way. As our UI is webbased, it is a lot more flexible, but we still move to the app. The key issue is that an app/phone is linked to an individual person, where a monitor is linked to a machine. When you want flexibility in a fleet scenario, you don't want to store any user data on the PM5. You want it on a USBDrive or app (guess what C2 does?).
SWE192 wrote: ↑August 8th, 2024, 4:09 pm
integration of a broader range of biometrics (e.g., SO2, ECG - just have a look at the amazing stuff MoniCardi in Finland is doing!),
A key distinction here is whether you see the PM5 (or ORM) as a 'simple' data generator or as a central point of your data processing. Again, as the PM5 is tied to the machine, not to the user, it shouldn't contain personal data.
ErgData just records the basics. In the ORM team we had a lot of discussion about this, as we see a lot of room for improvement in terms of metrics structurally recorded. We record a lot more data from the machine per stroke (force curves, drive time, drive length, etc). However, the PM5 reports this data via bluetooth. With apps, you can record it all and get a lot of extra data. You just have to upload it to a party like RowsAndAll.com to be able to use it. Again, this fits in a world view that the PM5 is just there to determine key machine metrics and share it with more intelligent consumers.
A key outcome for ORM is that we are not the place to record additional data (like breathing rythm, etc..), as we can't extract that data from any of the devices reporting to us, even if we wanted to. For example, a Garmin Epix records this during a session, but it won't share it with data consumers. Nor do any other sensors like HRM straps report this. Even if we could get the data, there is no output format that can really capture it all: RowsAndAll's csv's capture truly anything rowing related, but miss a lot of health data like breathing rythm. Garmin fit files are the industry standard that can record all health data, but really lack the rich rowing data.
We've thus chosen to follow C2's path: we report our data nicely to Garmin and Polar via BLE and ANT+, and they incorporate it into their recorded session. We have more info we record and share with RowsAndAll, and hopefully someday people realize that merging data from multiple sources is interesting.
SWE192 wrote: ↑August 8th, 2024, 4:09 pm
better connectivity to smartwatches (Apple Watch!!) - all features already realized in a range of other devices.
That is because Apple thinks they are rulers of the earth or something, and completely disregard any industry standard, thinking that everybody will adopt to their standard if they set it. At ORM we also looked at Apple and decided that we won't play along their arrogance. We, like C2, focus on industry standards.
In developping ORM we looked at the industry golden standards that Apple has chosen to completely disregard: BLE FTMS and ANT+. ANT+ is supported by Garmin, Polar and several other sportwatches out there. Use it daily, works brilliantly. FTMS is supported by EXR and KinoMap, and works great as well (use that daily on ORM to connect to EXR).
A PM5 supports ANT+ in both directions, so not much more you can ask for. On the bluetooth side, the PM5 doesn't support BLE FTMS. But their own protocol predates FTMS, is a thousand times better (as FTMS only reports time, distance, pace and power) and its specs are public. And C2 is market leader. ORM even emulates a PM5 as many rowing apps only understand it instead of FTMS.
SWE192 wrote: ↑August 8th, 2024, 4:09 pm
Those are my amateur's ideas - experts likely see a lot more opportunities.
In all honesty, my only issue with the PM5/ErgData combo are three things
- I would like two or three simultanuous BLE interfaces running. I like to use ErgData to get a verified session or another app to extract all data, and EXR on my tablet to keep me occupied.
- ErgData should record much more data into its logs. It gets it via BLE, it even shows it in the GUI, why not record it? Now I need third-party apps and third party sites to get data presented that a PM5/ErgData already has.
- A better integration with key providers of training plans (training peaks, intervals.icu) and key consumers of data (RowsAndAll, training peaks, intervals.icu). RowErgs are not on an island, they are typically part of a coherent training plan stored on some website outside C2. Clising that loop would make life a lot easier. Garmin carries this heavy load now, and I'm still not certain it should keep on carrying it.
