Seat Pain, Feels like 2 Positions that "Switch" almost with a "Pop"

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Acumen
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Seat Pain, Feels like 2 Positions that "Switch" almost with a "Pop"

Post by Acumen » March 31st, 2024, 12:52 pm

Hi All,

I have been rowing infrequently a few years on a cheap Amazon rower, but recently got the Concept2. I am very tall and very thin which is I am sure the root of this problem.

I have a painful seating issue, where it feel likes there are 2 states my ischum/muscles want to be in, one that is more 'upright', one that is more 'reclined', but that rowing requires the state to switch, which becomes painful enough that it makes it very hard to row. It is almost like there are 2 hip rotations, but I am not sure that makes sense, so my main guess it is a muscle group passing over the ischum? There is a soft almost pop sensation, but it doesn't feel like part of my hip, it is a very low toward seat pain, like the ischum changes positions or something.

This starts to happen after a few minutes on the rower, happens faster with more effort put out.

A cheap single thickness, no holes, gel/foam, pad did not help, it possibly makes it worse. There was no issue on the cheap rower which had a very very soft seat. It possibly helps if I have my feet out of the straps and a bit wider apart then the footwells allow, and angled outward a bit.

Any insight is appreciated! I have searched but nothing I found seems to fit this problem exactly. I plan on trying the ProW seat next, but was hoping to gain some more knowledge on this first.

jamesg
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Re: Seat Pain, Feels like 2 Positions that "Switch" almost with a "Pop"

Post by jamesg » April 1st, 2024, 7:13 am

Try no layback, low feet, straight back, head high.
08-1940, 183cm, 83kg. Last seen MHR 140.
2024: stroke 6 W-min @ 20-21. No times yet, now using WODs.

Slidewinder
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Re: Seat Pain, Feels like 2 Positions that "Switch" almost with a "Pop"

Post by Slidewinder » April 1st, 2024, 8:21 am

Acumen wrote:
March 31st, 2024, 12:52 pm
I have a painful seating issue...
There was no issue on the cheap rower...
Simple. Remove the seat on the cheap rower and install it on the C2. On my Model D I installed a seat salvaged from an old piston-style rower. The makers of cheap piston-style rowers can get it right, but Concept 2 can't.

Dangerscouse
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Re: Seat Pain, Feels like 2 Positions that "Switch" almost with a "Pop"

Post by Dangerscouse » April 1st, 2024, 10:30 am

I'm really not sure what the problem is, as I don't suffer from any PITA.

When you say you're thin, do you also have underdeveloped / flat glutes? I wonder if this is natural padding that can cause some people issues
50 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:19; 6k= 20:47; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,488m 60mins= 16,618m HM= 1:16.47; FM= 2:40:41; 50k= 3:16:09; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

Instagram: stuwenman

Acumen
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Re: Seat Pain, Feels like 2 Positions that "Switch" almost with a "Pop"

Post by Acumen » April 1st, 2024, 12:04 pm

jamesg wrote:
April 1st, 2024, 7:13 am
Try no layback, low feet, straight back, head high.
Yeah I can row like this and stay in one of the states, or I can row more reclined and stay in the other. Neither feels good as a permanent state, I want to be able to move normally.
Slidewinder wrote:
April 1st, 2024, 8:21 am
Simple. Remove the seat on the cheap rower and install it on the C2. On my Model D I installed a seat salvaged from an old piston-style rower. The makers of cheap piston-style rowers can get it right, but Concept 2 can't.
If this is easy to do I will try it next time I row.
Dangerscouse wrote:
April 1st, 2024, 10:30 am
When you say you're thin, do you also have underdeveloped / flat glutes? I wonder if this is natural padding that can cause some people issues
I wouldn't say underdeveloped, I am very active and athletic, but very thin. I tend to outperform other very active friends in anything where weight or endurance matters. But yeah, I have very little "natural padding". Very low BMI.

I also just noticed, and I am wondering if this is really the root of the issue now, that the cheap rower the foot placement is substantially farther apart, ~7" instead of ~4". It is much much closers to how I would stand naturally or in a squat etc.

Dangerscouse
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Re: Seat Pain, Feels like 2 Positions that "Switch" almost with a "Pop"

Post by Dangerscouse » April 1st, 2024, 2:51 pm

Acumen wrote:
April 1st, 2024, 12:04 pm
I also just noticed, and I am wondering if this is really the root of the issue now, that the cheap rower the foot placement is substantially farther apart, ~7" instead of ~4". It is much much closers to how I would stand naturally or in a squat etc.
Have you experimented with the foot stretcher placement? There's nothing you can do about the width, but maybe higher or lower might help? Admittedly it's a long shot.
50 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:19; 6k= 20:47; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,488m 60mins= 16,618m HM= 1:16.47; FM= 2:40:41; 50k= 3:16:09; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

Instagram: stuwenman

Willy.VdW
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Re: Seat Pain, Feels like 2 Positions that "Switch" almost with a "Pop"

Post by Willy.VdW » April 2nd, 2024, 4:07 am

I used the C2 seat pad, but now I don't anymore.
Sitting more to the rear end of the seat helped to alleviate the pain.
Although I still feel it, but changing the seating position really helped.

winniewinser
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Re: Seat Pain, Feels like 2 Positions that "Switch" almost with a "Pop"

Post by winniewinser » April 2nd, 2024, 6:36 am

I had issues with butt pain and rubbing, especially when going over long distances.

The Citius Remex seat pad was my saviour.....expensive but it works for my boney backside.

https://citius-remex.com/shop/prow-adju ... djustable/
6'2" 52yo
Alex
Recent 2k - 7:19
All time 2k - 6:50.2 (LW)

Cyclist2
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Re: Seat Pain, Feels like 2 Positions that "Switch" almost with a "Pop"

Post by Cyclist2 » April 2nd, 2024, 11:27 am

In leaner people those sit bones can be very prominent. Rolling back and forth over them is indeed painful. As slidewinder noted (and IMO also), the C2 seats are not shaped right. Go to a rowing manufacturer's web site (like this one; https://www.durhamboat.com/product/seat-tops/), look at the shape of actual rowing seats. There are two cutouts or deep depressions to accommodate the sit bones and a cutout for the tailbone.

Cut up an old sleeping pad or thick yoga mat with those cutouts to place on the seat. You should be good. You're not padding the seat, just shaping it to fit your butt. (There is generally no padding on rowing seats and they have worked fine for over 100 years).
Mark Underwood. Rower first, cyclist too.

Acumen
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Re: Seat Pain, Feels like 2 Positions that "Switch" almost with a "Pop"

Post by Acumen » April 2nd, 2024, 1:51 pm

I played around a bit today. It is 100% a muscle group that passes by the bone. In general it wants to be behind/underneath the bone, but when engaged on the rower wants to be on one side or the other so 'pops' back and forth.

In general, just constantly engaging the muscle group also seems to help keep it on one side, but it means no real relax period.

I swapped the seat, it is more comfortable for sure, I do feel the muscle group passing the bone still. I have not yet done a very long/strenuous row as I don't think it is eliminated, so am still playing around a bit to see if I can get it a bit better.
Dangerscouse wrote:
April 1st, 2024, 2:51 pm
Have you experimented with the foot stretcher placement? There's nothing you can do about the width, but maybe higher or lower might help? Admittedly it's a long shot.
I played around a bit, I feel natural at 3 or 4. At 5 or 6 it becomes easier to stay in the 'upright mode'. 0, 1, 2 is easier to stay in 'reclined' mode. None of them feels great. 3 or 4 just feels more natural but it happens most there.
Willy.VdW wrote:
April 2nd, 2024, 4:07 am
I used the C2 seat pad, but now I don't anymore.
Sitting more to the rear end of the seat helped to alleviate the pain.
Although I still feel it, but changing the seating position really helped.
Moving toward the rear does help a bit, but it isn't eliminated. I will pay attention to this more for sure. The front definitely makes it worse.
winniewinser wrote:
April 2nd, 2024, 6:36 am
I had issues with butt pain and rubbing, especially when going over long distances.

The Citius Remex seat pad was my saviour.....expensive but it works for my boney backside.
Planning on getting it to try if I don't figure this out the next few days.
Cyclist2 wrote:
April 2nd, 2024, 11:27 am
In leaner people those sit bones can be very prominent. Rolling back and forth over them is indeed painful. As slidewinder noted (and IMO also), the C2 seats are not shaped right. Go to a rowing manufacturer's web site (like this one; https://www.durhamboat.com/product/seat-tops/), look at the shape of actual rowing seats. There are two cutouts or deep depressions to accommodate the sit bones and a cutout for the tailbone.

Cut up an old sleeping pad or thick yoga mat with those cutouts to place on the seat. You should be good. You're not padding the seat, just shaping it to fit your butt. (There is generally no padding on rowing seats and they have worked fine for over 100 years).
The Citius Remex ProW has those cutouts, so if I can't nail it down with posture somehow, that hopefully that will help. I wish I had ordered the stupid $3 C2 pad when I had ordered to see if that would help. They should make it an option to be in the box, I would have likely gotten it.

I am going to try to widen the foot stance somehow to see if that helps.

Acumen
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Re: Seat Pain, Feels like 2 Positions that "Switch" almost with a "Pop"

Post by Acumen » April 2nd, 2024, 7:25 pm

So I tried widening the foot stance, and to my surprise it did not seem to have any effect.

I did a mild session with the cheap amazon rower cushioned seat, making sure to sit to the rear, and the feet at 1, and while not perfect it was much better. I can stay mostly in the reclined position, and get almost full range. The balls of my feet are only halfway on the rests on 1, but it seems to work OK.

I was looking for a different aftermarket seat instead of the cheap one, I don't expect much life from it. The only one I see, the EndureRow looks like it is out of production. It feels odd to have the cheap, swapped seat on it, but I guess it is what it is. I think I will order the Citius Remex ProW to hopefully have the stock seat work even better than this cheap one.

Thanks all! If there is anything else that might make sense or help someone in the future (I didn't see any other topics on this exact problem when searching) please let me know!

p_b82
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Re: Seat Pain, Feels like 2 Positions that "Switch" almost with a "Pop"

Post by p_b82 » April 3rd, 2024, 4:52 am

While I didn't get muscle pain, I did get nerve pain.

I've got a cheap pad and then the c2 pad on top of it and it has cured my issues.

I found making sure I get my sit bones firmly into the cutouts at the catch massively helped to alleviate the issues for me. When I set myself up "comfy" at the finish I was getting the pinching on the nerve - so might be worth experimenting with that as well perhaps?

Still get sore glutes on really long rows, but at least no pins and needles and dead-legs anymore.
M 6'4 born:'82
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'23: 6k=25:23.5, HM=1:36:08.0, 30'=7,077m, 60'=13,702m
'24: 500m=1:37.7, 2k=7:44.80, 5k=20:42.9, 10k=42:13.1, FM=3:18:35.4
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Acumen
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Re: Seat Pain, Feels like 2 Positions that "Switch" almost with a "Pop"

Post by Acumen » April 6th, 2024, 5:18 pm

I got the Citius Remex ProW today, low version, but I am not sure it has solved things better then the cheap seat just yet. I swapped back the stock seat, and with the pad it seemed much better at first, so much so that I possibly made the mistake of setting my feet from 1 back to 3 where I am more comfortable. At the end of a moderate session I was feeling PITA again, not as bad as with the stock seat, but possibly not as reduced as just the cheap seat with feet on 1.

I am hoping going back to higher feet will help, otherwise I might try to swap for the high version. I am skinny enough that I don't get the "on a bide saddle" feeling people talk about at all, even with the firm insert. I am also going to force myself to take a good break before I try again, as much as I want to just go back at it tomorrow.
p_b82 wrote:
April 3rd, 2024, 4:52 am
I found making sure I get my sit bones firmly into the cutouts at the catch massively helped to alleviate the issues for me. When I set myself up "comfy" at the finish I was getting the pinching on the nerve - so might be worth experimenting with that as well perhaps?
This does seem to help at least initially, will play with it more!

Willy.VdW
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Re: Seat Pain, Feels like 2 Positions that "Switch" almost with a "Pop"

Post by Willy.VdW » April 7th, 2024, 2:58 am

A few days ago, I did a workout of about 50 minuts, half of it with the C2 pad
and the other half on the "bare" seat.
With the pad on, my sitbones didn't touch the seat, but I still felt some pain.
Without the pad, I could feel my sitbones tilt, but the feeling was the same.
Since I began rowing about 1,5 years ago, the pain has gradually diminished
and using the pad makes no difference anymore.
This seems to suggest that there is more going on than just pain from tilting
sitbones on a hard seat.

Dangerscouse
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Re: Seat Pain, Feels like 2 Positions that "Switch" almost with a "Pop"

Post by Dangerscouse » April 7th, 2024, 8:05 am

Willy.VdW wrote:
April 7th, 2024, 2:58 am
A few days ago, I did a workout of about 50 minuts, half of it with the C2 pad
and the other half on the "bare" seat.
With the pad on, my sitbones didn't touch the seat, but I still felt some pain.
Without the pad, I could feel my sitbones tilt, but the feeling was the same.
Since I began rowing about 1,5 years ago, the pain has gradually diminished
and using the pad makes no difference anymore.
This seems to suggest that there is more going on than just pain from tilting
sitbones on a hard seat.
FWIW, I used to get discomfort/ pain from about 40 mins of rowing, which was alleviated by using a home concocted remedy (three pieces of cut up yoga mat in a pillow case), but if I rowed from the start with the mat, I'd still get the same discomfort at about the same time.

I couldn't ever figure this out, especially as over the course of about a year, I adapted to it all and didn't need a seat pad at all. Not even for an attempted 100k that fell apart at about 84k. Now, what really baffles me is I get uncomfortable in a cinema seat after about an hour.

It's a strange issue that for some of us never improves, slightly improves or totally disappears but there doesn't seem to be anything that explains it, certainly not that I know of. I'm assuming it's down to physiology, but I don't have a clue what the changes in my physiology over that time were.
50 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:19; 6k= 20:47; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,488m 60mins= 16,618m HM= 1:16.47; FM= 2:40:41; 50k= 3:16:09; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

Instagram: stuwenman

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