PM5 spiky stroke rate

[Cyclist2]

Just upgraded my model C to a PM5 and did my first workout. ErgData worked fine, everything seemed fine. I noticed, however, that there were lots of stroke rate spikes. I got an occasional spurious reading on my PM3, but this was LOTS. The stroke rate workout graph is basically useless. The pace and heart rate averaged these spikes out, but not the stroke rate.

I just removed the wheel to check the magnets and pickup. All seem fine, clean. The PM is set for a model C, the firmware is the latest.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

[Ombrax]

I really can't help, but just the same will ask two questions. (they may be due to my lack of knowledge about ErgData)

1) Is the "noisy spm" issue only with the ErgData values, or does the PM5 display for stroke rate also behave erratically?

2) When you say "the pace and heart rate averaged these spikes out" I'm not sure I understand the connection between, say HR and the stroke rate. As far as the PM or ErgData are concerned there's no relationship between the two, so noise in the SPM value shouldn't affect the HR. Unless, of course, there's noise in all of your data between the PM and ErgData, not just with the stroke rate, which probably means something and might help you diagnose the problem.

[jamesg]

Did the same upgrade (an old C from PM3 to PM5), two years ago, which removed all the spikes I saw before the switch. My PM5 has a white label on the back with a large black C.

[MPx]

Sounds like something wrong, so prob best to contact C2 direct and ask. FWIW I gave my old C to a bud of mine and he later replaced the PM3 with a 5. I see his Ergdata graphs in the training logs and no spikes .... so its not endemic.

[p_b82]

when you say spikes, do you mean just that it records one stroke more/less frequently?

Or that it is putting in inaccurate stroke rate spikes Eg sudden jumps in rate?

I'm not that consistent with my stroke rate, and while the PM5 can show me at 20, that is often rounded and I can be slightly above or slightly below and the csv generated flicks between 19/20 a lot and so my trace looks spiky.

[JaapvanE]

Is the PM5 set to the right rower?

[Carl Watts]

What hardware version is it ? What exact firmware version is it ?

Back in the day, specific hardware versions of the PM3 had the same problem, the spm would spike 3 to 5 times during a 30 minute row for no reason on a perfectly fine Model C rower. You just couldn't fix this problem, it was inherent in the monitor.

I would factory default reset it, double check its set as a model C and try it again, if it still plays up not much you can do about it.

[Cyclist2]

It's a brand new PM5 from C2 (hardware version 300). I checked - it has the latest firmware (version 257) and I double checked that it is set to model C.

I reached out to C2. They said when they see this kind of response, it usually is the magnets. The PM5 is more sensitive to the magnetic fluctuations, according to them. They gave me some guidance to make sure the magnets are flush to the back of the wheel. Mine aren't and they don't move - I didn't want to really hammer away at them.

They offered new magnets, so I said send them, along with instructions on how to install them without damaging them. They are very small.

I'll put my PM3 back on for the week or so I'm waiting. Stay tuned, I'll post what happens.

[Carl Watts]

The magnets are tiny and I cannot get imperial sizes here so drilled the holes out and went to 3mm x 4mm Neodymium from memory. They as cheap as chips on like AliExpress but you need to order like 20.

If they hold a paper clip then they are okay strength wise.

If the Nickel coating on them gets compromised they disintegrate to dust when you punch them out.

I used Loctite to hold any replacements in, press fit is not fun.

Work out the N-S polarity before you punch the old ones out, you need to fit them the same way around or at least have all 3 the same way around.

[jamesg]

I double checked that it is set to model C.

If there's a C label on the back, then it is for Cs. "Set to" is not enough. Did you tell Concept2 that you would be fitting it to a C machine? If not and there's no label on the back, it won't work:

The PM3 is no longer available. If you are having issues with it and are not able to resolve them using troubleshooting, you can replace it with the PM5, available in our online shop. Please make sure you select the right machine when ordering, as retrofit instructions and components vary by machine.

https://www.concept2.com/service/monitors/pm3

[Ombrax]

If there's a C label on the back, then it is for Cs. "Set to" is not enough. Did you tell Concept2 that you would be fitting it to a C machine? If not and there's no label on the back, it won't work.

This ^^^ is interesting.

If I understand, you are saying that some PM5's currently for sale by C2 will work on a Model C rower and others won't, right?

[jamesg]

Vice versa: the PM5 version that will work depends on the C machine version. I quote above the ordering instructions on the C2 site.

https://www.concept2.com/service/monitors/pm3

[Carl Watts]

Any PM5 should work on any Model of Concept 2 rower ever made if it is configured correctly in the menu.

The options are:

A or B/C or D/E

The only difference with the "C" label on the back is the default factory setting for the monitor is a Model C.

The problem with a standard "D" version of the PM5, like the PM3 it can try and go back to a "D" just randomly after you manually change it to a "C" as the default is "D"..

The change now is all done in the firmware as the TACH socket switching is electronic, the very first version of the PM3 required a physical link to be moved as well on the board.

[Cyclist2]

If there's a C label on the back, then it is for Cs. "Set to" is not enough. Did you tell Concept2 that you would be fitting it to a C machine? If not and there's no label on the back, it won't work:

If you go to the PM5 order page on C2 (https://shop.concept2.com/performance-m ... nitor.html) there is a box to choose the correct machine, in this case "model C/D with device holder". I checked that box. Then when you get the monitor, there is a tag directly attached that says "This PM5 is set to work on a Model D RowErg. If you have a Model C, follow these steps to change the model type: More Options > Utilities > More Utilities > Erg Model Type". You do that and it very clearly says which model you want to select, complete with images so you can positively identify the machine you have. There is even a "confirm" button to push. I did that routine several times. It never switched back to Model D.

This discussion over whether it is the right monitor, whether is it the latest version, and whether I have it set correctly is over.

I appreciate, Carl, the advice on magnets. When I get the new ones I'll reread your post and proceed accordingly. Thanks!

[Citroen]

Any PM5 should work on any Model of Concept 2 rower ever made if it is configured correctly in the menu.

The options are:

A or B/C or D/E

The only difference with the "C" label on the back is the default factory setting for the monitor is a Model C.

The problem with a standard "D" version of the PM5, like the PM3 it can try and go back to a "D" just randomly after you manually change it to a "C" as the default is "D"..

The change now is all done in the firmware as the TACH socket switching is electronic, the very first version of the PM3 required a physical link to be moved as well on the board.

+1

All PM5s work on all rowers. The label tells you the default on a "cold" start. By that I mean after the batteries are out for 24 hrs or more.