Random thoughts from a new owner

[ecrow]

I've just bought a C2 (used model D), so I don't have anything much to contribute yet other than questions, but wanted to share some initial thoughts.

- you don't appreciate the low weight unless you handle it in person
- I wish there was some small latch or something to stop the seat rolling. I've had to move it around a lot and it caught me by surprise a few times. I've decided I won't take it apart or stand it up each time even though its taking up a lot of space in my living room.
- I can now see why some people like the higher E/tall legs as getting on it would be easier. Its basically confirming how unfit I am
- I don't agree at all with basically all the reviews slamming it for looks compared to the expensive options. In person it looks well made and like it means business vs something that looks 'nice'
- rowing itself seems very deceptive. i.e. if someone did a few casual rows vs a bike / skierg / stair climber, they might think its an easy exercise. I think this is because its non impact and very much technique driven, I suspect its entirely possible to row with incorrect technique for long periods and not feel it.

[johnlvs2run]

I suspect its entirely possible to row with incorrect technique for long periods and not feel it.

If that were true, for any given pace, then the incorrect technique would be better.

[Ombrax]

I've decided I won't take it apart or stand it up each time even though its taking up a lot of space in my living room.

Another benefit of having it just sitting there, ready for use, is that it makes it easier to just hop on and get a quick workout. If it takes a while to prepare it that gives the little devil on your shoulder who's trying to convince you to not work out one more reason to dissuade you.

[Cyclist2]

I wish there was some small latch or something to stop the seat rolling. I've had to move it around a lot and it caught me by surprise a few times.

10" bungee cord to the rescue!

I suspect its entirely possible to row with incorrect technique for long periods and not feel it.

Not feel the incorrect technique, or not feel like you are getting a workout? Lots of posts from new users saying their legs don't feel it, but that is the poor technique. Minor flaws in technique won't affect the workout, but getting the basic motion correct is key to enjoying it and getting a full body workout. Lots of technique videos on C2 web site and YouTube.

[Ombrax]

Not feel the incorrect technique, or not feel like you are getting a workout? Lots of posts from new users saying their legs don't feel it, but that is the poor technique. Minor flaws in technique won't affect the workout, but getting the basic motion correct is key to enjoying it and getting a full body workout. Lots of technique videos on C2 web site and YouTube.

I think of the common newbie statement that "I don't feel like my legs are working that hard" issue (or alternatively "wow, rowing is easy - I hardly feel any resistance at all!") in terms of pace:

If, as a newbie, you can row a 2k at an average pace of, say 2:00 min / 500 m and "not feel it," then that's great, you're likely in good shape (cardio and strength wise) working relatively hard, but your body is able to handle it.

If you row that 2k at an average pace of 3:00 min / 500 m and "don't feel it" then the reason is that you aren't asking your muscles to do the work (either by not pushing yourself hard enough or due to poor technique) and your avg pace - or avg watts proves that.

[ecrow]

I wish there was some small latch or something to stop the seat rolling. I've had to move it around a lot and it caught me by surprise a few times.

10" bungee cord to the rescue!

I suspect its entirely possible to row with incorrect technique for long periods and not feel it.

Not feel the incorrect technique, or not feel like you are getting a workout? Lots of posts from new users saying their legs don't feel it, but that is the poor technique. Minor flaws in technique won't affect the workout, but getting the basic motion correct is key to enjoying it and getting a full body workout. Lots of technique videos on C2 web site and YouTube.

I don't think I got my point across very well. What I meant is that bad technique can make something seem simpler than it is, because its not engaging everything its meant to.

I'll try again using as a reference a sport I know well. In tennis when hitting a serve, the power comes from your legs, then core and finally from arms/shoulder. That seems very similar to rowing. Its common to see people try to muscle the serve and not use their legs/core. Even among the pros it can be spotted.

The result is that the serve lacks power (in rowing it'd be low watts?), consistency or accuracy, the potential for injury is higher, and because you aren't using all the muscles and all your physiological systems, you are expending less energy so it seems easier. That's what I was getting at, I think it'd apply to many sports.

I have looked at quite a few technique videos. I'm trying to stay away from the complicated ones - i.e. those that talk about perfect technique at catch/release, foot position etc and try to get my basics right.

Again I relate to my playing tennis, which I am pretty good at (USTA 4.5/5.0). I was lucky enough to get coaching early on even though I picked it up very late in life, and thus I had good technique and conversely saw how hard, almost impossible, it is to undo bad technique once it becomes ingrained. That is my main concern, I want to do it right and avoid injury.

[ecrow]

I've decided I won't take it apart or stand it up each time even though its taking up a lot of space in my living room.

Another benefit of having it just sitting there, ready for use, is that it makes it easier to just hop on and get a quick workout. If it takes a while to prepare it that gives the little devil on your shoulder who's trying to convince you to not work out one more reason to dissuade you.

Good point, also helps there's no plugging in/turn on. I have to get into a routine every morning now that I have it. I'm not an exercise person, funnily enough I had no problem playing sports all the time but I never liked working out.

Also going to combine with intermittent fasting which is also new for me. Fasted cardio via rowing each morning - at least that's the plan.

So it needs building up some new habits and willpower.

[Dangerscouse]

I don't think I got my point across very well. What I meant is that bad technique can make something seem simpler than it is, because its not engaging everything its meant to.

I'll try again using as a reference a sport I know well. In tennis when hitting a serve, the power comes from your legs, then core and finally from arms/shoulder. That seems very similar to rowing. And I've seen many who will try to muscle the serve or not use their legs/core.

The result is that the serve lacks power (in rowing it'd be low watts?), consistency or accuracy, the potential for injury is higher, and because you aren't using all the muscles and all your physiological systems, you are expending less energy so it seems easier. That's what I was getting at, I think it'd apply to many sports.

I have looked at quite a few technique videos. I'm trying to stay away from the complicated ones - i.e. those that talk about perfect technique at catch/release, foot position etc and try to get my basics right.

Again I relate to my playing tennis, which I am pretty good at (USTA 4.5/5.0). I was lucky enough to get coaching early on even though I picked it up very late in life, and thus I had good technique and conversely saw how hard, almost impossible, it is to undo bad technique once it becomes ingrained. That is my main concern, I want to do it right and avoid injury.

Fair comments, and I'd that there's nuances for this issue. Clearly, there are technique errors that are detrimental and will increase the risk of injury, e.g., shooting the slide.

Then there's some errors that aren't ostensibly a problem, but they will make you less efficient and give the impression that rowing is harder than it actually is. Much like your tennis serve example.

Finally, there are 'errors' that are largely perceived as incorrect / bad practice, that some people either adapt to or thrive on. For example, Cam (btlifter) is an exceptionally good rower, but he uses 200+ drag, and others that I know never do UT2, but are national record holders.

IMHO, I'd suggest that technique is important, but it's not absolutely vital that you get it to 100% correct. Physiology will play a role in what feels best for you, but I do agree with your initial comment about incorrect technique, it's just more complicated than it first seems

[p_b82]

You can then also throw in the different style that a person has https://www.biorow.com/RBN_en_files/2006RowBiomNews.pdf (page three onwards has a quite nice summary /intro to the concept).

There's lots of different opinions on the best style - and on the water vs erging has variances too.

as long as you avoid injury and don't do anything significantly inefficient then finding what works for you is important - one can always tweak technique later, or go get some coaching if seriously committed to getting every % out of themselves etc.

[ecrow]

You can then also throw in the different style that a person has https://www.biorow.com/RBN_en_files/2006RowBiomNews.pdf (page three onwards has a quite nice summary /intro to the concept).

There's lots of different opinions on the best style - and on the water vs erging has variances too.

as long as you avoid injury and don't do anything significantly inefficient then finding what works for you is important - one can always tweak technique later, or go get some coaching if seriously committed to getting every % out of themselves etc.

I started reading that pdf and quickly got in over my head when I got to the biomechanics part.

Watching rowing videos of olympic rowers and other professionals, its funny almost every one will have the same comments about lack of technique, and then another set whining about the complainers since apparently the pros are much fitter and don't always use textbook form.

[p_b82]

Yes that was to a degree the point - "perfect" form doesn't exist and every-one has a slight variation in what works for them.

Just more a case of avoid/minimise the major issues; shooting the slide, over compressing, overly rounding the back, pulling with the arms before legs finished and you'll be just fine.

If you skip through the actual biomechanics numbers, the conclusion drawn is that the "bad" technique of exploding at the catch is the more efficient from a purely numbers perspective, yet it's deemed poor form and not often coached. (as I understand it anyway)

[Dangerscouse]

Yes that was to a degree the point - "perfect" form doesn't exist and every-one has a slight variation in what works for them.

A great example is a video of the 'Kiwi Pair' on YouTube, that shows the differences in their techniques, but neither of them can ever be said to be even slightly wrong.