Concept2 Forum

I am looking to get a new concept 2 rower. However, I am EMF sensitive, so I can't have a monitor that has Bluetooth, WIFI, ANT or anything like that. Yes, I do live in the middle of no where and there are no other devices in my home that emit that type of EMFs. It looks to me that the PM monitors can be upgraded on the older machines, which makes me think that they would be backward compatible. This should mean that I should be able to use a PM3 monitor on the newer machines. Any thoughts on whether the PM3 monitor could be used with a new rower?

Your best bet would be to ask the folks that make them on info@concept2.com. But I reckon it should be OK as the Model D launched with the PM3 and the new Rowerg is essentially a model D. However, you're giving up a significant set of motivation assets to achieve the end, and its keeping doing it that's most important.

Also worth considering just getting an old Model C or D that would come with a PM3 that you can test as working before you buy. They last forever and all the spares are still available. Indeed lots of them have had a life of a little used clothes horse rather than serious use as an ergometer.

PM3 certainly works with Model D (aka RowErg). They were sold together for years.

You may be able to turn off Bluetooth on the PM5.

Not sure, but I think to have seen that BT symbol disappears on PM5 automatically after some seconds, when not connected to any device. In this case PM5 cannot be found by any device anymore, so probably this would be fine already.

BretBouer wrote: ↑

August 16th, 2023, 9:43 pm

I am looking to get a new concept 2 rower.
...
This should mean that I should be able to use a PM3 monitor on the newer machines. Any thoughts on whether the PM3 monitor could be used with a new rower?

No, that will NOT work, as the RowErg has a 18 Volt generator on board, and the pulse signal it generates is also 18 Volt. The PM3 expects a signal (no power) of 200 mVolt. So the RowErg signal will fry the PM3 electronics.

gvcormac wrote: ↑

August 17th, 2023, 6:48 am

PM3 certainly works with Model D (aka RowErg). They were sold together for years.

Not with the current 18 Volt generator, which is standard on the RowErg.

JaapvanE wrote: ↑

August 17th, 2023, 9:42 am

gvcormac wrote: ↑

August 17th, 2023, 6:48 am

PM3 certainly works with Model D (aka RowErg). They were sold together for years.

Not with the current 18 Volt generator, which is standard on the RowErg.

I will need to read further, but I'm certain my 1st-gen and 2nd-gen PM3 RowErgs are self-powered. The PM2 on the Model C was not.

It appears that the 1st gen Model D has a "power generator" (part number 1887) where 2nd gen to date has a "sensor" (part number 2401).

The 1st gen came with PM3 (part number 1874), while 2nd and later came with either PM3 (part number 1874) or PM5 (part number 1818). Both are listed as suitable parts in the schematics up to the present version.

See "schematic and parts lists" here: https://www.concept2.com/service/indoor ... schematics

gvcormac wrote: ↑

August 17th, 2023, 9:47 am

It appears that the 1st gen Model D has a "power generator" (part number 1887) where 2nd gen to date has a "sensor" (part number 2401).

Do you mean this part 4201: https://shop.concept2.com/parts/424-sensor-coil.html

Which is a generator?

gvcormac wrote: ↑

August 17th, 2023, 9:47 am

I will need to read further, but I'm certain my 1st-gen and 2nd-gen PM3 RowErgs are self-powered. The PM2 on the Model C was not.

The model C works with 200 mVolt signals (see https://github.com/laberning/openrowing ... /issues/77) for certain. I agree there.

If I recall correctly, the generator was introduced on the Model D alongside with the PM5? But it was ages ago, so I might be mistaken here. Carl probably knows, as he knows the internal electronics much better then I do.

Sakly wrote: ↑

August 17th, 2023, 6:55 am

Not sure, but I think to have seen that BT symbol disappears on PM5 automatically after some seconds, when not connected to any device. In this case PM5 cannot be found by any device anymore, so probably this would be fine already.

I think the current PM5 remains discoverable via BLE and ANT+. When I connect ErgData I never have to turn on anything.

JaapvanE wrote: ↑

August 17th, 2023, 10:30 am

Sakly wrote: ↑

August 17th, 2023, 6:55 am

Not sure, but I think to have seen that BT symbol disappears on PM5 automatically after some seconds, when not connected to any device. In this case PM5 cannot be found by any device anymore, so probably this would be fine already.

I think the current PM5 remains discoverable via BLE and ANT+. When I connect ErgData I never have to turn on anything.

Yes, me too. But if I wait some time, then I need to turn on connection in the menu (or switch off and on the PM5 again). Probably this was changed in a newer firmware, I am not running the latest, if ergdata is correct.

Sakly wrote: ↑

August 17th, 2023, 10:38 am

Yes, me too. But if I wait some time, then I need to turn on connection in the menu (or switch off and on the PM5 again). Probably this was changed in a newer firmware, I am not running the latest, if ergdata is correct.

I'm normally not that patient, so I might not get to that point.

I don't know if the PM5 keeps looking for ANT+ devices either, or remains discoverable that way.

JaapvanE wrote: ↑

August 17th, 2023, 10:25 am

gvcormac wrote: ↑

August 17th, 2023, 9:47 am

It appears that the 1st gen Model D has a "power generator" (part number 1887) where 2nd gen to date has a "sensor" (part number 2401).

Do you mean this part 4201: https://shop.concept2.com/parts/424-sensor-coil.html

Which is a generator?

gvcormac wrote: ↑

August 17th, 2023, 9:47 am

I will need to read further, but I'm certain my 1st-gen and 2nd-gen PM3 RowErgs are self-powered. The PM2 on the Model C was not.

The model C works with 200 mVolt signals (see https://github.com/laberning/openrowing ... /issues/77) for certain. I agree there.

If I recall correctly, the generator was introduced on the Model D alongside with the PM5? But it was ages ago, so I might be mistaken here. Carl probably knows, as he knows the internal electronics much better then I do.

The "sensor" is part 2401 -- the one you linked to.
The "generator" -- part 1887 -- is listed in the schematic for the oldest Model D, instead of the sensor.

I have 1st and 2nd generation Model D's and they both came with PM3s. I have since upgraded the 1st gen to a PM5. It has its 20th birthday in October.

The Model D TACH pickups went through about 5 generations before arriving at the current one.

They all essentially work the same in driving the numbers the monitors output, the difference is the amount of power they generate when you row.

The early "Single" coil version really did not output enough to run the monitor 100% or charge the battery in the PM4 properly.

The next versions use the "Twin" coil and this combined with the now lower run current of the second gen PM3 onwards is enough to power the monitor 100% while you row.

The old PM3 doesn't transmit anything, the older PM4 can potentially be looking for an ANT+ HR monitor is you hit the connect button and the PM5 now has Bluetooth and ANT+.

The PM3 can still run with the latest rower and is still configurable to run with the older rowers as well.

You don't really want a 1st Gen PM3 now, it too old, given a choice you would only buy a 2nd Gen one made from about 2008 onwards.

You can tell what version it is from the product ID screen that has the Datecode and the firmware version.

Mpx writes:

Also worth considering just getting an old Model C or D that would come with a PM3 that you can test as working before you buy. They last forever and all the spares are still available. Indeed lots of them have had a life of a little used clothes horse rather than serious use as an ergometer.

THIS

My YOM 2012 model D is like new with a mere 15MM meters on the clock. The PM3 “clock,” as is the case with many C2 ergs, has been upgraded to PM5 but the rower was never abused and is very reliable. If you have a good copy of the PM3, why not get the post-2006 Model D with no question of operational compatibility. If it has a PM3 mounted, you have a spare. If PM4 or 5, you have something to sell.