Concept2 Forum

How does a 2007 model D with pm4 monitor compare with a Rowerg and pm5 monitor?
At least I think it's a D but it might be a C. The machine is bland white in front, with funky shrouded legs.
I'm not sure if 2007 was the actual date but it does have a pm4 monitor.

The 2007 model is a 70 mile round trip and the closest Rowerg is a 252 mile round trip.

Which one would you get, why, and what would you pay for each one?

I think the first 6 digits of the serial number indicate the production date.

Model C never came with PM4.

Model D came mostly with PM3 or PM5, but there may have been a short time with PM4.

PM4 is fine if you don't need bluetooth, either for apps or HRM. You can upload to concept 2 log with a printer cable and a pc. You can also connect to rowpro or an old version of ergdata.

C has a disc damper; D has concentric slots.

Thanks much for the feedback. The older D with the PM4 is no longer being considered.

I have a deal going as of this morning for a relatively new Rowerg and arrangements
to pick it up within a few days in person, though it's a 252 mile round trip. Also I found an
8 year old (May, 2015) model D with pm5 that is a 200 mile round trip and am negotiating the price.
The model D looks pristine. Both the Rowerg and the model D have less than 11000 meters.

It seems to me that these two are quite similar and that either of them would be good.
I hope to decide by tonight, to not lose the first one that I've been communicating with for two weeks.

Any comments on why one or the other might be better are welcome and much appreciated.

RowErg is just a rebranding of the last version of model D. So it'll be chronologically newer, but mechanically the same. 11,000 meters seems too low. 11,000 km? 110,000 meters?

200 miles is about 310 km. That sounds like light use for several years.

Have there been PM5 (hardware) updates since 2015??? If so the Rowerg version would be my choice as the PM5 function is critical to my enjoyment of the machine so I would want to make sure its as robust and long lived as poss. (Obviously firmware upgrades are easy to do in either case)

MPx wrote: ↑

August 3rd, 2023, 11:54 am

Have there been PM5 (hardware) updates since 2015??? If so the Rowerg version would be my choice as the PM5 function is critical to my enjoyment of the machine so I would want to make sure its as robust and long lived as poss. (Obviously firmware upgrades are easy to do in either case)

That's a good point. The newer PM5 models have a yellow/green C2 logo, while the older ones are grey/white. Reportedly, the older ones have less robust bluetooth. This seems to manifest itself mainly when doing ergathlons (i.e. connecting multiple ergs such ask row, ski, bike). But I've read anecdotes about flakey connections to apps like Ergdata. I have no first-hand experience with older PM5 -- all mine are green.

gvcormac wrote: ↑

August 3rd, 2023, 1:23 pm

MPx wrote: ↑

August 3rd, 2023, 11:54 am

Have there been PM5 (hardware) updates since 2015??? If so the Rowerg version would be my choice as the PM5 function is critical to my enjoyment of the machine so I would want to make sure its as robust and long lived as poss. (Obviously firmware upgrades are easy to do in either case)

That's a good point. The newer PM5 models have a yellow/green C2 logo, while the older ones are grey/white. Reportedly, the older ones have less robust bluetooth. This seems to manifest itself mainly when doing ergathlons (i.e. connecting multiple ergs such ask row, ski, bike). But I've read anecdotes about flakey connections to apps like Ergdata. I have no first-hand experience with older PM5 -- all mine are green.

Mine is one of the very first PM5s, never had any connection problems with anything. Still get updates too.

MPx wrote: ↑

August 3rd, 2023, 11:54 am

Have there been PM5 (hardware) updates since 2015???

Yes, there are 4 versions (in the wild) of the PM5. I think the latest even has differences in the menu.

stevegaspars wrote: ↑

August 3rd, 2023, 7:14 pm

MPx wrote: ↑

August 3rd, 2023, 11:54 am

Have there been PM5 (hardware) updates since 2015???

Yes, there are 4 versions (in the wild) of the PM5. I think the latest even has differences in the menu.

Don't the updates equalize the menus? In a hotel gym I saw the old menu (app/hrm connection way different) but I was informed an update would fix that. I didn't do the hotel's update for them, though I've been known to repair other hotel C2s. Including but not limited to lubricating the chain with olive oil, pounding loose a seized brass bushing at the handle end of the chain, and, of course, replacing batteries.

nick rockliff wrote: ↑

August 3rd, 2023, 1:29 pm

Mine is one of the very first PM5s, never had any connection problems with anything. Still get updates too.

Not contradicting your experience; however,

https://www.concept2.com/service/monito ... -ergathlon

You have two options for connecting the ergs together for each single Ergathlon:

Use the wireless function on the PM5.
Wire the ergs together with Ethernet cables.
We recommend wired Ergathlons if you have a PM5 with an entirely silver logo (a Version 1 PM5).

gvcormac wrote: ↑

August 3rd, 2023, 9:13 pm

Don't the updates equalize the menus? In a hotel gym I saw the old menu (app/hrm connection way different) but I was informed an update would fix that. I didn't do the hotel's update for them, though I've been known to repair other hotel C2s. Including but not limited to lubricating the chain with olive oil, pounding loose a seized brass bushing at the handle end of the chain, and, of course, replacing batteries.

I'm wondering how easily you can get away with that kind of maintenance. I almost always row at home, but recently in a New York Sports Club on Manhattan's Upper West Side, I worked out on a Concept 2 whose chain was so stiff it was barely usable and made all kinds of noise as I rowed. If I go back there again I plan to bring paper towels and oil. The managers will either be thinking, "Good, I'm glad somebody's finally doing that job," or "Who is this guy and why is he monkeying around with our stuff?" It takes such a short time to oil a chain that I think I can get the job done before anybody is alert enough to try to stop me.

gvcormac wrote: ↑

August 3rd, 2023, 9:13 pm

Don't the updates equalize the menus? In a hotel gym I saw the old menu (app/hrm connection way different) but I was informed an update would fix that.

I'm just assuming, since i have seen PM5's with a different main menu to mine. I assumed they would have been newer, since mine was a Gen3 and up to date. Mine goes Just Row/Select Workout/Connect/Memory/More Options.

Edit: The other PM5's connection setup was in More Options, or button E.

Edit:

gvcormac wrote: ↑

August 3rd, 2023, 9:37 pm

Not contradicting your experience; however,

There have been bluetooth upgrades throughout the generations. I think the V1 has a pretty rubbish implementation, apps like Cozweat don't even support V1's. I think the latest (V5 judging by firmware filenames) is the only one that allows firmware updates over bluetooth.

gvcormac wrote: ↑

August 3rd, 2023, 9:37 pm

nick rockliff wrote: ↑

August 3rd, 2023, 1:29 pm

Mine is one of the very first PM5s, never had any connection problems with anything. Still get updates too.

Not contradicting your experience; however,

https://www.concept2.com/service/monito ... -ergathlon

You have two options for connecting the ergs together for each single Ergathlon:

Use the wireless function on the PM5.
Wire the ergs together with Ethernet cables.
We recommend wired Ergathlons if you have a PM5 with an entirely silver logo (a Version 1 PM5).

Next time I want to connect two ergs I'll remember that. Wait a minute, in 20 years I've never even thought about doing that.

stevegaspars wrote: ↑

August 3rd, 2023, 7:14 pm

Yes, there are 4 versions (in the wild) of the PM5. I think the latest even has differences in the menu.

The menus are all designed in firmware so with the latest firmware installed ALL PM5s are identical (where the hardware is capable).