Concept2 Forum

Hi, I’ve been using Rowergs for a couple of months, working my way up to 23 spm for 25 minutes (damper is at 4). Few weeks ago the muscles in my left thigh started tightening up, to the point I couldn’t climb stairs. With the help of a physical therapist, I’m doing stretching exercises to address this issue. To determine whether the rowing machine is the culprit, I’m trying to figure out what I might be doing wrong. My posture and technique appears to be correct, based on literature I see online at Concept2. But, I noted that, when in the drive mode, my feet balls are doing the pushing. It seemed to alternate between the two feet - only one foot pushes at a time. On this, the difference between the two feet felt very subtle -- but it’s possible that my left leg was working harder. In recovery mode, my heels lift a bit as I move forward to get close to the flywheel. As I try to loosen the tightness, I wonder if I should keep my feet flat during recovery and drive? I tried it today, but it’s difficult to tell, when in the drive mode, if either leg/feet is taking pressure equally, or one is working harder than the other, just like before. 

Perhaps I am overthinking this, but I’d like to hear from others who have experienced the same tightness in their hip/thigh muscles. I'd like to hear how you addressed it. Is there a trick to ensuring both feet & leg are applying equal pressure?

bonk321 wrote: ↑

April 24th, 2023, 4:39 pm

my heels lift a bit as I move forward to get close to the flywheel

I'm not sure about the other stuff, but this (heel lift) is quite common, especially at the start of the drive, and I wouldn't worry about it too much. (If you look at the C2 "This is correct rowing technique" video on their site, the gal in the example does it.) Typically the advice one hears is "Some heel lift is OK, but try to get them down relatively quickly."

Caveat: there's at least one web site out there that says that heel lift is very bad, and that rowers should do their utmost to eliminate it. I don't think that's a widely held belief.

On the uneven leg push thing, you could try one of Stu's drills. Deliberately alternate - so more push with the right, then with the left, then both together and repeat. You should get used to the feel of the difference and then you'll know whether you mostly favour one leg or the other. I tend to do it on long rows when I'm getting tired and losing form - its something to concentrate on and helps keep things from going entirely to pot.

If you find your heel is lifting too much for your foot not to be flat against the foot plate during almost all of your drive, your foot stretcher might be adjusted too low. This will cause your heel to rise early, and all your drive to come from the balls of your feet which robs power from the stroke. You may also be going too far forward into the catch position.

It is true a little heel lift is common and not an issue, but too much puts you in a bad position for the best, most productive drive. As the drive is where all the highest loads are put on your body, bad positioning is going to shift loads to other places. Maybe that’s contributing to your issues. We tend to employ all sorts of compensation in our movements when over-exertion (whether by bad form or just hard work) wears us down. That’s one more possible cause of the weight shift from one side to another.

I hope you sort it. The rowerg itself isn’t likely to cause the issue… it’s often used for rehabbing injury. The variables person to person are immense, though.

My heels have always, and will always lift a bit, so imo that's not any issue at all, but as Mike mentions try rowing with alternate pressures.

What I suggest is press with circa 70% pressure on the left for one stroke, then 70% on the right then row with 50/50 and repeat for as long as you want to. This will help build a mind muscle connection so you start to feel what is going on with your legs and what the pressure feels like when it's predominantly one leg over the other. It can be easily lost when you row with equal pressure.

If it's possible, and I know that some people can't do it, try also to row with eyes closed so you can focus even more on technique and how it feels. Don't worry if this is too much, but it can be really useful.

I wonder if I should keep my feet flat

At the catch, the shins are vertical with the slide at about 45 cm from the heels, with the trunk forward, back straight and weight on the feet.

This strong posture is reached by sliding forward with the specific sequence: straight back, hands away, then swing forward, then slide. For most of us, our heels will rise in that posture. The foot strap is over the toes, to allow this. See:

https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... que-videos

The erg doesn't have a front stop, but we can tie a rope round the rail so that the slide cannot go too far forward, which would compress and weaken the knee, risking injury.

The legs can then work first, fast and hard at the catch, starting from an open knee angle.

The catch posture when rowing must allow this, since power is speed x force. Force can only be applied safely and wihout injury if the posture allows.

While I don't get tightness in my quads or hamstrings; I do get nerve pain down my right leg after 40 mins or so that starts as pins and needles in my toes.

You may find your hip on one side isn't in quite the same position, so the effort isn't being applied to the muscles in the same way, I'd try to just subtly adjust your sitting position to see if you can rectify the issue as well as investigating the drive pressure. Twist your right hip slightly closer/further as you're sat still on settling down to start.

You could also try a seat pad if you don't use one already.

Not wanting to overly question your medical diagnosis, but are you sure it's not a form of muscle damage that you need to rest - strain etc? When I started on the erg, I pulled my bicep by trying to go too far too fast before I'd actually got my technique more settled and correct.

FWIW my understanding is that if we have a pair of anything, then one is always bigger than the other, and in the case of arms/legs, i suggest it is often possible to see a difference in strength as well.

So it would not be uncommon that there was a difference in the force being applied by one leg over the other imho.

Whether this is the cause of your issues i cannot say, i would expect the differences to be relatively small and not noticeable over 25mins.

I found the seat pad on my erg consistently moved slightly over a period of time, from anywhere about 45mins up, the amount of movement was small but enough to cause PITA to arise.

I suspect as the pain always arose in the right buttock with the pad moving back slightly on that side, and that it was on balance more likley be due to small differences in the force i was applying from one side of my body to the other. Could be wrong and there have been another cause, but the errant seat pad is now velcroed to the C2 seat and doesn't move, even after several hours.

GlennUk wrote: ↑

April 26th, 2023, 6:42 am

FWIW my understanding is that if we have a pair of anything, then one is always bigger than the other, and in the case of arms/legs, i suggest it is often possible to see a difference in strength as well.

There should be. When a child is around 2 to 3, it will choose a dominant standing leg. In the further development, this legs is stronger and more equiped to handle prolonged stress. So having two equal legs would be very odd.

Hi everyone, just wanted to say thanks for all your feedback to my inquiry. I found them to be insightful and helpful. I had a setback with my IT band - it just got tighter — and had to rest a bit while rehabilitating it. To this day it’s still not clear how or why it happened, but I’ve resumed rowing at a lower intensity and there is no pain, as usual. I’ve found it’s easier now to keep the heels of my feet flatter at the catch and I’m paying more attention during the drive that I push as closely as possible with both legs. I did try a pad on my seat, but I didn’t think it made a difference.

Again, gracias.

- Rowers normally push through the balls of the foot, even when the heels are planted. The sitting position and biomechanics make this the most effective way to generate horizontal force. Studies with pressure measuring insoles clearly show this.
- Not lifting heels is bro science, coming from the Crossfit scene.

Tobias Stoehr wrote: ↑

May 16th, 2023, 3:15 am

- Rowers normally push through the balls of the foot, even when the heels are planted. The sitting position and biomechanics make this the most effective way to generate horizontal force. Studies with pressure measuring insoles clearly show this.

Absolutely making sense and this is what you should feel.

Tobias Stoehr wrote: ↑

May 16th, 2023, 3:15 am

- Not lifting heels is bro science, coming from the Crossfit scene.

Agree. It is mostly related to mobility of the ankles how much you need to lift. Focus on not lifting helps probably to overcompression issues, but I think there are better ways to train that as telling to not lifting the heels.
I don't need to lift my heels, as my ankles are very mobile, but that's me and very individual.

Tobias Stoehr wrote: ↑

May 16th, 2023, 3:15 am

- Not lifting heels is bro science, coming from the Crossfit scene.

It's amazing that cyclists are able to put any power at all into the bike... ; )

Ombrax wrote: ↑

May 17th, 2023, 11:41 pm

Tobias Stoehr wrote: ↑

May 16th, 2023, 3:15 am

- Not lifting heels is bro science, coming from the Crossfit scene.

It's amazing that cyclists are able to put any power at all into the bike... ; )

It is mind boggling. They are not even able to plant their heels! Track sprinter cyclists should really educate themselves, change their shoes and push through the heels to finally create some respectable watts.

Back to the original post.

Are you sure your legs are the same length?
It's not uncommon for them to be different lengths.
This could cause all sorts of issues.

You mentioned PT in your post.
They probably did check this, but just throwing it out there.