Concept2 Forum

Hey all, I recently moved to Italy and have been on the hunt for a rower. I found one branded as an "air Rower" and as far as I can tell from the pictures it's identical to a model D. What do you think? https://ibb.co/QndRVPj

That looks like a re-branded model D with a PM3.

That's not a Concept2.

Citroen wrote: ↑

March 30th, 2023, 9:27 am

That looks like a re-branded model D with a PM3.

Itis a knock-off brand, this is the best website I could find that displays it: https://zocobodyfit.ro/produs/aparat-de ... til-negru/

I actually help callibrate this machine for OpenRowingMonitor as the monitor attached is total crap. Good news is that OpenRowingMonitor V1Beta supports this machine so there is an easy way to fix this (although Raspberry pi's aren't as cheap as they used to be), see https://github.com/laberning/openrowing ... ree/v1beta

This is a machine that tries to replicate the mechanical looks and construction of the C2. From a design perspective, several knock-offs have a weird drag to inertia balance, making the flywheel feel totally different than a C2. This machine has a lighter flywheel (thus is less inclined to keep its current speed). So the rower will actually feel and behave different from a real C2.

From a construction perspective, built quility often lacks for these knock-offs, which might or might not become problematic.

Thanks so much for the information everyone! Do you think it's worth it for 400€? I'm not against spending double or more for a real C2, but saving some money is always nice. The last rower I had was a decent knock off of a water rower which I really enjoyed, but it didn't make any sense to bring it all the way to Italy.

Get a real one.

Jhi wrote: ↑

March 30th, 2023, 2:19 pm

Thanks so much for the information everyone! Do you think it's worth it for 400€? I'm not against spending double or more for a real C2, but saving some money is always nice. The last rower I had was a decent knock off of a water rower which I really enjoyed, but it didn't make any sense to bring it all the way to Italy.

If you already know rowing is your thing, I'd buy a C2. I initially bought a NordicTrack (pandemic made C2 have a waiting list, and I wasn't that sure I liked to row on a daily basis), but I switched to a C2 after a year. It was the quality issues present, lack of service and the lack of high quality data that put me off the NordicTrack. The later can be remedied by installing OpenRowingMonitor on the machine (allowing you to connect your rower to games and sport watches like a PM5 and providing a lot of data exports the PM5 can't), but a Raspberry Pi with a touchscreen and ABS case will currently cost you an additional 200 euro (which is actually more expensive than a PM5). After 9 months, the band tore apart (took some convincing to get service) and the repair unbalanced the flywheels, which they refused to repair. That is service from a knock-off brand for you.

On hindsight, I should have bought the right machine right away, which would have been cheaper overall and provided a much better experience right away. When you are on the machine on a frequent basis, you'll feel the quality of the machine each and every time you use it. And C2 service is unparalleled, which is a great piece of mind.

It's worth depends on what you want to get out of it. If it's just a workout then it might be worth it. But since you're on here my guess is that the ranking lists and logbook features play a role in your workout, if that's true then a knockoff that maybe has a lighter flywheel or a monitor that does not calculate the same as a C2 would make accurate comparison with others impossible. My C2 Model C was purchased in 2003 with a PM2+ monitor (Upgraded to a PM5, 5 years ago), it has 25 million meters and shows no sign that it needs replacement. I expect to be rowing on this machine until I cannot physically row anymore.

For me, the ability to track my effort is essential. Many (including this one, I think) just count strokes and/or flywheel rotations independent of force. Even if I'm wrong and it is an erg, the numbers will be incomparable to Concept 2 machines, which excludes you from a large community.

Now that we are so over COVID, used C2 prices are coming down a bit. But they're still a bit hard to find.

gvcormac wrote: ↑

March 31st, 2023, 4:46 am

Many (including this one, I think) just count strokes and/or flywheel rotations independent of force.

Your impression is correct. In calibrating a machine for Open Rowing Monitor we typically compare with the original monitor. Most monitors are glorified pulse counters (similar to bike "computers" measuring speed based on wheel rotations). With the notable exceptions of C2, RowPerfect and BioRower, I haven't seen monitors produce any credible metrics. Several don't even try. My NordicTrack manual stated that the distance indicated was only valid at Damper setting 10, which has a DF of 450(!).

I must add that for waterrowers this is especially true as the waterlevel (and thus the inertia of the rotating mass) is determined by the user, which has a huge effect on the machine properties but the monitor can't measure that.

Hey all, I recently moved to Italy

Concept2 have an office in Via Flaminia 38/B, 00067 Morlupo (Roma)
info@concept2.it

JaapvanE wrote: ↑

March 30th, 2023, 3:43 pm

If you already know rowing is your thing, I'd buy a C2.

That. If you plan to use it regularly, get a c2. A second-hand one if you want to save a bit.
It's usually easy to find a used one in good conditions. If later on you want to sell it, you likely won't lose much money.

The good hardware, software (both PM5 and apps) and community are all major points.
For me, the logbook has also been a key element in hooking me up to rowing regularly.