Concept2 Forum

Hi all,
been on my RowErg for 19 months (just past 3M meters), wanted to give my 2c about seats.

I started with the baseline c2 seat and had all sort of ass pains. I can now say that that was not because the seat is bad, but more because I was totally out of shape at the time and surely not rowing correctly. At any rate, I went quickly to the Vapor Fitness cover (silicon) and the c2 foam pad.

The Vapor Fitness cover is anywhere between placebo and very minimal effect. Looks nice though
The c2 foam made it for me: it improved my comfort instantly and allowed me to row long sessions (>1h) without troubles. Probably also helped by the fact that I progressively improved my fitness and my rowing.

Still, I wasn't fully satisfied with the c2 foam: I typically took it off for short hard rows (1min, 500m/1k/2k) and I noticed (or I think I noticed) that for these I was better off without. First, when pushing hard it was moving around a bit and second, I felt it in the way of my hamstrings at the end of the drive. Also, longer sessions still had a bit of discomfort.

After reading around on options I've found basically only the EndureRow and the Citrus Remex. I'm in France, the EndureRow had a bit of a steep price (once you factor in shipping + 20% VAT) and I managed to find a second hand (second ass?) Citius Remex Low for a decent price so went with it.

After 2 weeks and all sort of sessions (from 1K intervals to half-marathons) i can say that it works very well for me.
It can move around a bit on hard sessions, just like the c2 foam. I more or less solved this by looping some velcro longitudinally around the c2 seat: the loop is "closed" by the velcro under the Citius Remex insert, so that everything can be removed/replaced in 30sec.
I adapted to it immediately, no problem with the perineal ridge.
Things I noticed:

• With the CR I no longer need to occasionally reposition my butt longitudinally (forward/backward) during long sessions.
• With the CR I no longer need to reposition my ass cheeks in the correct position (as in this video). It seems it just keeps my cheeks in the correct position by itself.
• With the CR, I tend to notice more when I lean my torso too much back at the end of the drive. Due to its form, your cheeks will feel when you lean too much.

I'm wondering if it wouldn't be even better if the CR was sitting on a flat surface (instead of on the c2 seat mildly contoured surface) ...

And finally, I'm still undecided if fixing it to the c2 seat "for good" (i.e. with adhesive velcro on the c2 seat) but I'll probably do that.

Bottom line: works very well for me, ass pain totally gone (up to 1h30 half-marathons, the day I put back the courage to try a marathon again I let you know). Price may look steep for "some foam", but result is there (at least for me) so I'm happy with it. Double happy in fact, as I had it for half the price.

P.S.
I'd say that the CR would be even more beneficial to a rowing noob than to an expert rower. Serious rowers are fitter, have better technique and, most importantly, have developed pain acceptance

Forgot to add: I've found this reddit saying some of the stuff I said (and more), but way better:

A Review of The ProW by Citius Remex

Oh Right! Thanks for the reminder. I had just got the ProW by Citius Remex later that day I wrote about it. I've been using it every day and not to bury the lead here; it is worth every penny. I went from numb every 10-15 minutes to being able to row unlimited amounts of time with no but sits pain or numbness.

ProW keeps things from going numb. I did a lot of research about numbness, mostly from the cycling community. The consensus from doctors was more concerning than I thought. Numbness is investing in nerve damage. Just say no. Okay, sold.

The sockets of the ProW let your ischial tuberosity float and your hamstring and glute tie-ins get more blood flow. Since using it I haven't felt any numbness or pain while rowing. It seems that the center of the Prow acts partially like a bike seat, redistributing the weight from just the tiny sits area, to the fuller under hip area. I've also not felt any discomfort with the ProW center crunching the under-bits.

ProW gives you proprioception. Depending on how you position your sits in the ProW, it gives you proprioception that is very useful for honing your rowing form. You can position your sits bones in the ProW socket's more forward or more back for different emphasis.

If you sit more back in the ProW, it makes the catch position more easy by angling you forward slightly, creating an excellent shoulders in front of hips, great for all those pistol-shrimp backed rowers that are looking for a trip to the hospital.

This more back position also gives you proprioception if you lean back too far at the finish because you will feel the top half or your cheeks roll over the back of the ProW (this is assuming you use your cheeks. I know we have some leg-pressing/arm-pulling maniacs out there.)

If you sit more forward on the ProW however, you get the proprioception at the Catch, which will feel tighter as you press against the bike seat with your bits (but not so much that it causes pain). During the drive, it feels like the prow is helping you hinge easier to a correct finish angle. I imagine this would be especially useful if you struggle to use your hips as your driver by leaning back to the right angle.

As an aside, I had a female friend try the ProW who had never complained about sits bone discomfort and she was completely indifferent. Paint me unsurprised. The guys who came up with this thing are all tall lean males from Nordic countries.

HornetMaX wrote: ↑

March 28th, 2023, 5:19 pm

I started with the baseline c2 seat and had all sort of ass pains. I can now say that that was not because the seat is bad, but more because I was totally out of shape at the time and surely not rowing correctly.

Very good HM. Never blame the C2 equipment. Always blame yourself. That's the rule here. By the way, how much harder and flatter would the C2 seat have to be before you dared to criticize it?

Slidewinder wrote: ↑

March 29th, 2023, 7:50 pm

Very good HM. Never blame the C2 equipment. Always blame yourself. That's the rule here. By the way, how much harder and flatter would the C2 seat have to be before you dared to criticize it?

I actually said the Citius Remex works better for me.

My comment on the c2 seat was that as a beginner I was surely doing plenty of things wrong. More recently (with 18 months of rowing under the belt) I've found the c2 seat OK. But the CR is better (again, at least for me).

I'm not going to say the c2 seat is crap just to please you. It's not (still just in my opinion).
Is there better stuff out thee ? I think yes, the CR and maybe others.

Does that rephrasing satisfy you any better ? Not that I really care but ...

Your post and your cited post really lighted a lightbulb in my head. I have been rowing for about 8 months and have progressively improved my ability, mainly by following the Pete plan. I am weary of doing the long steady state row. My aerobic capacity has no problem dealing with 1 hour+ sessions, but my entire right leg gets very numb from around 25 minutes onward. Although after the sessions, it only takes a couple of minutes for the numbness to go away, I sometimes notice weakness in the right leg on the days of such long sessions. I had a herniated disc in the lumbar region a couple of years ago, which compressed the right nerve root. I worried about the back problem coming back, but I think the symptom suggests compression of the sciatic nerve under the butt.

After seeing the sentence in the post "The consensus from doctors was more concerning than I thought. Numbness is investing in nerve damage. Just say no.", I got serious about this problem and decided to give the ProW by Citius Remex a try. I am one week on it and it makes a huge difference. The numbness was completely gone since day one I used the seat pad. I am probably saved from developing a long term problem by your post.

HornetMaX wrote: ↑

March 28th, 2023, 5:22 pm

Forgot to add: I've found this reddit saying some of the stuff I said (and more), but way better:

A Review of The ProW by Citius Remex

Oh Right! Thanks for the reminder. I had just got the ProW by Citius Remex later that day I wrote about it. I've been using it every day and not to bury the lead here; it is worth every penny. I went from numb every 10-15 minutes to being able to row unlimited amounts of time with no but sits pain or numbness.

ProW keeps things from going numb. I did a lot of research about numbness, mostly from the cycling community. The consensus from doctors was more concerning than I thought. Numbness is investing in nerve damage. Just say no. Okay, sold.

The sockets of the ProW let your ischial tuberosity float and your hamstring and glute tie-ins get more blood flow. Since using it I haven't felt any numbness or pain while rowing. It seems that the center of the Prow acts partially like a bike seat, redistributing the weight from just the tiny sits area, to the fuller under hip area. I've also not felt any discomfort with the ProW center crunching the under-bits.

ProW gives you proprioception. Depending on how you position your sits in the ProW, it gives you proprioception that is very useful for honing your rowing form. You can position your sits bones in the ProW socket's more forward or more back for different emphasis.

If you sit more back in the ProW, it makes the catch position more easy by angling you forward slightly, creating an excellent shoulders in front of hips, great for all those pistol-shrimp backed rowers that are looking for a trip to the hospital.

This more back position also gives you proprioception if you lean back too far at the finish because you will feel the top half or your cheeks roll over the back of the ProW (this is assuming you use your cheeks. I know we have some leg-pressing/arm-pulling maniacs out there.)

If you sit more forward on the ProW however, you get the proprioception at the Catch, which will feel tighter as you press against the bike seat with your bits (but not so much that it causes pain). During the drive, it feels like the prow is helping you hinge easier to a correct finish angle. I imagine this would be especially useful if you struggle to use your hips as your driver by leaning back to the right angle.

As an aside, I had a female friend try the ProW who had never complained about sits bone discomfort and she was completely indifferent. Paint me unsurprised. The guys who came up with this thing are all tall lean males from Nordic countries.

EarthRower wrote: ↑

May 21st, 2023, 1:44 pm

I am probably saved from developing a long term problem by your post.

I surely hope so, even if I see more merit in this for the Citius Remex people

My 'bottom line'; I use a hand towel, does it for me. Problem is not technique but a lack of gluts ie natural padding. Working on that but it'll take a while. Meantime the towel addresses mostly the discomfort element, and let's face it, there are other pain factors for the brain to focus on when erging than arse-ache.

I thought seats were too hard the first day I rowed in about 1950. Still thought so when I sold my 1x last year.

The only remedy is like the Chinese cure for toothache, walk on hot coals: pull so hard you don't notice thanks to endorphines. And keep it short, there's no point in staying afloat for hours when you can get fit in 20 minutes.

Slight adjustments can be made on erg: lose weight; low feet and pull hard; don't roll the hips. But pull hard.

No huge complaints about the C2 seat; it’s functional and people row millions of meters on it every year. That doesn’t mean there aren’t better individual fits out there, as the OP certainly found. I have used the EndureRow seat for quite a while now, and it “fits” me fine. My wife just drops the Vapor Fitness silicone cover over it, and she likes that it feels like the full seat, with less “butt bone” pressure due to the cutouts below. We have no longer needed any of the pads we bought prior to getting the EndureRow.

No point in being less comfortable than you have to be. If something keeps you on for more meters or a faster row, it’s a good thing. Do what works!

Hi all.

I've just got myself a Citius Remex but assumed the foam inserts would come with it which they don't. Are these a necessity or should the pad be ok on its own? I've tried the C2 seatpad but still got discomfort after 15-20 minutes.

Has anyone also tried a Vapor cover over their CR? I have both and would ideally like to keep the Vapor as I also have the phone holder and they look pretty good together, but if the Vapor on top is likely to disadvantage the CR in any way then I'll send it back.

Won't get a chance to try it out for a few days so thought I'd ask here first.

dave_n wrote: ↑

June 3rd, 2023, 6:22 am

I've just got myself a Citius Remex but assumed the foam inserts would come with it which they don't. Are these a necessity or should the pad be ok on its own?

You can buy the CR alone or CR with the inserts (for a few extra euros/dollars).
I use my one with the softest insert but, to be honest, testing the different inserts I didn't feel any difference.

I use one insert just because fixing it to the c2 seat avoids the CR moving around.
But you can achieve the same with some velcro between the CR and the c2 seat.

dave_n wrote: ↑

June 3rd, 2023, 6:22 am

Has anyone also tried a Vapor cover over their CR? I have both and would ideally like to keep the Vapor as I also have the phone holder and they look pretty good together, but if the Vapor on top is likely to disadvantage the CR in any way then I'll send it back.

I have a Vapor cover and I didn't test it on top of the CR: I'd say it doesn't make a lot of sense as that would take away some of the benefits of the CR.
But we're all different (e.g. Rick's post, stating his wife prefers the CR with the Vapor on top) so yeah, give it a try and whatever works best for you is the right thing.

For aesthetics only, you could put the CR on top of the Vapor cover. But raising the seat height too much is probably not a good Idea (I kind of felt it when using the Vapor + C2 foam pad and it's probably also the reason why the CR comes in two different thickness variants).

HornetMaX wrote: ↑

June 3rd, 2023, 5:04 pm

I have a Vapor cover and I didn't test it on top of the CR: I'd say it doesn't make a lot of sense as that would take away some of the benefits of the CR.
But we're all different (e.g. Rick's post, stating his wife prefers the CR with the Vapor on top) so yeah, give it a try and whatever works best for you is the right thing.

For aesthetics only, you could put the CR on top of the Vapor cover. But raising the seat height too much is probably not a good Idea (I kind of felt it when using the Vapor + C2 foam pad and it's probably also the reason why the CR comes in two different thickness variants).

Thanks, kind of echos my thoughts and I don't want to over complicate things. I'll just battle on with the CR and hopefully once broken in it'll be sufficient enough without having to try the Vapor or buy the inserts.

Has anyone tried anything from rowingpad.com?

https://rowingpad.com/shop/

Looking for something to add to the seat other than a folded towel but it's more for adding a tad bit of height to the seat to put me in a better position than for actual cushioning.

Tried a fairly inexpensive seat pad from 2kFit off of Amazon; it started at 3" of memory foam but because I tend to sit towards the front of the seat, it compressed down to about half that height (perfect for what I am looking for) but I was not a fan of how "bulky" it felt on my back side. It may have helped encourage better upright posture and form but just didn't like the feel a whole lot. Looking for something to give me similar height (1-1.5") without all the padding/compression as comfort has never really been the issue.

jcross485 wrote: ↑

June 7th, 2023, 1:49 pm

Tried a fairly inexpensive seat pad from 2kFit off of Amazon; it started at 3" of memory foam but because I tend to sit towards the front of the seat, it compressed down to about half that height (perfect for what I am looking for) but I was not a fan of how "bulky" it felt on my back side. It may have helped encourage better upright posture and form but just didn't like the feel a whole lot. Looking for something to give me similar height (1-1.5") without all the padding/compression as comfort has never really been the issue.

I've not used anything from there - but I've got the C2 seatpad but it wasn't enough to stop discomfort.

So I've also added a gel seatpad which I've found helps more when placed under the C2 pad.

My posture however I think is the root cause of my discomfort, as it is only on one side of my body & appears to be pinched nerves.