Concept2 Forum

Good evening,

I've had a model E for a while (from 2015) and a PM5 which seems to have developed a fault with Bluetooth.

I started to get intermittent drop out connections between the old ergdata app a old style Garmin HR belt and my phone, so I assumed that the belt was playing up and the phone was a little flaky so invested in a the phone to be connected to the monitor while rowing. This worked really well up until upgrading to the new version of the app which doesn't support a cabled connection. Speaking to concept 2 the reason to not continue supporting a usb cabled connection to a phone was:

The decision was made to no longer support the USB connection in the app for various reasons: cost, complexity of programming, and a very small percentage of our users use it for a PM5. Also, several users use the USB port in conjunction with the Bluetooth interface and this causes problems for the processor to service both interfaces in a timely manner

It turns out that the monitor might be the source of the Bluetooth problem and having emailed concept2 the only option is a full replacement of the monitor. I am really quite surprised at this as I'd expected either a repair option or some extra help with diagnosis rather than buy a new monitor and see if that helps. There's no way of confirming this that I know of and the only help seems to be US based although I have asked for a UK option if available.

Is there any instructions for checking the Bluetooth connection or for disassembling the monitor? Has anyone heard of similar issues with PM5s?

I'm not too keen on spending £150 on a new monitor only for it to have the same issue and can currently work round it by using the old app and then viewing the data in the new app (should I choose to do so)

The other query I had with a HRM belt is - If I have a PM5 with a flaky Bluetooth, can the HRM connect via the phone to the monitor or does it have to be via the PM5?

Many thanks for any information

Stuart

https://log.concept2.com/profile/1089121

Have you updated the PM5 firmware ?

What firmware version do you have shown in the product ID screen ?

Update it and factory default reset the PM5.

HRMstraps really are not that reliable long term. Replace the battery in it. If you have the really old Garmin hard strap the battery cover fails and it leaks time for anew strap.

Keadiin wrote: ↑

July 21st, 2022, 3:35 pm

I've had a model E for a while (from 2015) and a PM5 which seems to have developed a fault with Bluetooth.

I started to get intermittent drop out connections between the old ergdata app a old style Garmin HR belt and my phone, so I assumed that the belt was playing up and the phone was a little flaky so invested in a the phone to be connected to the monitor while rowing. This worked really well up until upgrading to the new version of the app which doesn't support a cabled connection.

Try the free version of ergzone. See if the drops go away. If the PM5 works with ergzone and not with the new ergdata then likely your PM5 is fine and the drops are a quirk of the bluetooth library C2 is using in ergdata.

Look for bluetooth interference. Invertor microwaves are notorious for this, so are neighbors who tune their 2.4 ghz routers to odd channel patterns (e.g. start on channel2 rather than the std 1, 6 or 11). Some thoughts here. https://www.headphonesty.com/2021/01/bl ... erference/ and here https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-u ... terference

Look at position of your phone vs the PM5. I read somewhere (but later couldn't find) that the pm5 bluetooth antenna was somewhat directional. This makes sense -- the pm5 finds my BT HR belt before others next to me when rowing in a group. Your phone, if it is placed to the side of the PM5, may be in a weak location. Try moving it.

TY for posting that the new ergdata does not support a USB cable. I use that setup, so will not upgrade soon. Glad they kept the old app as Ergdata for PM3 and PM4. (fwiw Ergzone doesn't support usb cable either)

Keadiin wrote: ↑

July 21st, 2022, 3:35 pm

The other query I had with a HRM belt is - If I have a PM5 with a flaky Bluetooth, can the HRM connect via the phone to the monitor or does it have to be via the PM5?

The PM5 Heart Rate display only gets its data from the BTLE or ANT+ connection. It can't get it from Ergdata. But you can use another ap to capture and display HR. If the drops all go away then you can look harder at the PM5. If the drops continue with the new app (or in the case of my H10, show up at the same instant on both the PM5 and the other app) then look hard at the belt. HR belt drops are common.

Carl Watts wrote: ↑

July 21st, 2022, 11:16 pm

Have you updated the PM5 firmware ?

What firmware version do you have shown in the product ID screen ?

Update it and factory default reset the PM5.

HRMstraps really are not that reliable long term. Replace the battery in it. If you have the really old Garmin hard strap the battery cover fails and it leaks time for anew strap.

The PM5 firmware is current and also has been reloaded. If I factory reset the monitor do I lose the lifetime meter count?

Tsnor wrote: ↑

July 22nd, 2022, 2:11 pm

Try the free version of ergzone. See if the drops go away. If the PM5 works with ergzone and not with the new ergdata then likely your PM5 is fine and the drops are a quirk of the bluetooth library C2 is using in ergdata.

Look for Bluetooth interference. Invertor microwaves are notorious for this, so are neighbors who tune their 2.4 ghz routers to odd channel patterns (e.g. start on channel2 rather than the std 1, 6 or 11). Some thoughts here. https://www.headphonesty.com/2021/01/bl ... erference/ and here https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-u ... terference

Look at position of your phone vs the PM5. I read somewhere (but later couldn't find) that the pm5 Bluetooth antenna was somewhat directional. This makes sense -- the pm5 finds my BT HR belt before others next to me when rowing in a group. Your phone, if it is placed to the side of the PM5, may be in a weak location. Try moving it.

The odd thing here is that my flat is quite small, so the rowing machine is near a internet router, but *always* has been. I can try powering off the router and Bluetooth devices around it but for me that means all the hue lighting, mice and no Bluetooth headphones while rowing

The phone is on a cradle on top on the monitor

Tsnor wrote: ↑

July 22nd, 2022, 2:11 pm

TY for posting that the new ergdata does not support a USB cable. I use that setup, so will not upgrade soon. Glad they kept the old app as Ergdata for PM3 and PM4. (fwiw Ergzone doesn't support usb cable either)

You can have both on your phone, the old app will ask if you want it to be the default. You get the increased visibility of the new app, but have to switch to it to see it after you have finished your rowing. You'll have to see if its helpful or not. If your BT is stable you'll be fine. When the ergdata app stays working its lovely but in my experience it closes which I assume is due to a bluetooth drop.

Losing the usb connection is really bloody annoying for me, not only because of the fact is was a rock solid connection but also as it meant the monitor could draw power from the phone. Personally I think its a lousy idea to rely on BT connections if a physical connection is available.

Keadiin wrote: ↑

July 21st, 2022, 3:35 pm

The other query I had with a HRM belt is - If I have a PM5 with a flaky Bluetooth, can the HRM connect via the phone to the monitor or does it have to be via the PM5?

The PM5 Heart Rate display only gets its data from the BTLE or ANT+ connection. It can't get it from Ergdata. But you can use another ap to capture and display HR. If the drops all go away then you can look harder at the PM5. If the drops continue with the new app (or in the case of my H10, show up at the same instant on both the PM5 and the other app) then look hard at the belt. HR belt drops are common.
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I have downloaded ergzone but have yet to try it, its a looking a little complicated for what I need as I tend to do 116000m a week split into a few 21097m sessions and top it up ( the aim being 6 million metres this year)

I used to have a HRM belt and was looking to replace it ( and trying to find a decent one seems to be an issue of itself)- but now the PM5 is in doubt there's no point buying a belt - I have a Fitbit Sense which is good enough for my needs but it would have been nice to have it all in the logbook. IM still annoyed that Fitbit can't link, but that is a Concept2/Fitbit problem and way above anything I can change.

I guess I'm just really disappointed in the new app removing useful functionality and COncept2 support as far as diagnosis and resolution seems to consist of "buy a new monitor"

There is a guy in the uk who can attempt a repair which I will contact - hopefully this might be a useful option to explore

Through a process of elimination Ive been able to work out its something to do with the Bluetooth headphones I have, when these are not connected Ergdata doesn't drop out.

While I could use the older version of Ergdata, this doesn't submit verified workouts for some reason, so that's not that helpful.

Going back to the new version of Ergdata it has a bad habit of submitting duplicate workouts - and while not in my case its allowing the submission of vast distances with very short times (eg 1 million metres on 20 minutes. Not ideal really