A Comfortable Seat
Posted: March 11th, 2021, 3:27 pm
Since the subject of seat comfort is a recurring topic of interest, I thought I would add a few thoughts to the subject. I recently acquired an old Model B seat, courtesy of @wavid. (Thanks, Dave!!) It has made a world of difference in comfort!! I can erg longer without discomfort or the need to shift my butt to change pressure points. Comparing the B to the current model seat that has been used since the Model C, numerous differences become apparent:
1. Size. The B seat is tiny!!! This is an advantage, in my case. The present seat is large enough that positioning oneself on it is critical in terms of comfort. Fore & aft, starboard to port orientation is just plain easier for me on the smaller seat. On the current model, if I position myself forward enough to allow clearance of the hamstring tendons, I have no clearance for the tip of my coccyx, and vice versa.
2. Depressions for sitz bones. Important to relieve pressure on the arse bones to eliminate rubbing due to the rocking motion of the pelvis during the stroke cycle.
3. Prominent perineal ridge. Provides support to the pelvic floor during the forward body rockover going into the catch. Makes it easier to maintain a neutral lumbar spine at the catch, rather than encouraging collapsing (flexion) of the lower back.
4. Slight flaring at the rear of the seat. Supports the buttocks in the finished position to enhance ability to maintain lumbar position & avoid lower back flexion.
5. Generous rear cut out for clearance of coccyx at the finish to eliminate rubbing on this sensitive area.
6. Foam hardness on the 2 models is about the same, as far as I can remember.
I realize that seating comfort is entirely dependent on individual characteristics, especially including gender, since females have a wider ischial spacing than males. My stats are 5' 5" height, weight 138 lbs. For an average American male, I am both shorter & smaller. However, the first 2 model C2 ergs had seats that were modeled more after a rowing shell/scull seat and I believe, more comfortable for the smaller, or normal sized individual. The present seat, being larger, flatter in contour and harder is, I believe, meant for the larger, more overweight, obese market. No offense intended for those who find the present seat comfortable. I'm sure C2 performed their due diligence & found the move to their present seat provided more comfort to their targeted consumer. I just wonder if their sampling group was skewed more to the overweight crowd than normal sized individuals.
I believe if the present C2 seat were made of a softer foam, it would be a better fit for a larger number of people. Presently the alternatives that C2 provides is padding the seat with bubble wrap, a folded towel or their seat pad.
Padding, although it works very well for many, is at best, a band-aid solution. The shape of the seat itself needs to be address. Padding itself provides no solution to changing the contours of the seat top.
If one wants a seat pad with a contoured top, at present, there is only one option: The Citius Remex ProW. Very, very expensive, north of $150 USD. Seat tops provide more choices, but they are all costly. Think well north of $100 USD after tax and shipping. Rowing seats from Dreher, Durham Boat, Croker, Filippi, etc, etc are all hard, without padding, but if the contour is right, will be more than adequate for comfort. (side note: during my college days, I was employed at the university experimental farm. Part of my duties was driving an ancient tractor for plowing, harrowing, sowing, spreading, etc. It had a cast iron seat, that had slots in it for ventilation. Intuitively, I thought my butt would be turned to hamburger, but it proved very comfortable for hours of use. The contours of the seat made all the difference, regardless of no cushioning). The Croker and Filippi seats are the only mass produced seats, I am aware of, that allow for gender differences.
Erg specific seat tops are available from EndureRow, Carl Douglas and Rowperfect, both RP3 & Indoor Sculler. EndureRow is the cheaper alternative about $113 USD. Rowperfect, like the erg itself, is in the stratosphere. About $150 USD or more. Carl Douglas seat tops are absolutely gorgeous and custom made to your anatomy. A butt mold using Oasis floral foam is made to get your ischial tuburosity measurements. These seats are works of art but will be well north of even the Rowperfect seats.
If a seat pad is just not cutting it for you, then be prepared to spend over $100 USD to get a contoured top. Most cost-effective choice at this time is the EndureRow seat top. Or, if you can find one, an old Model A or B seat top.
Discloser: I have no commercial/financial interests in any of these products.
Since writing the above, I have come across a company that provides both a seat pad & seat top with contoured features:
https://www.revolutionrowing.com/produc ... g-seat-pad
https://www.revolutionrowing.com/produc ... g-seat-top
These look promising and being less than $100 USD, is also easier on the wallet. Again, I have no commercial interests in this company.
1. Size. The B seat is tiny!!! This is an advantage, in my case. The present seat is large enough that positioning oneself on it is critical in terms of comfort. Fore & aft, starboard to port orientation is just plain easier for me on the smaller seat. On the current model, if I position myself forward enough to allow clearance of the hamstring tendons, I have no clearance for the tip of my coccyx, and vice versa.
2. Depressions for sitz bones. Important to relieve pressure on the arse bones to eliminate rubbing due to the rocking motion of the pelvis during the stroke cycle.
3. Prominent perineal ridge. Provides support to the pelvic floor during the forward body rockover going into the catch. Makes it easier to maintain a neutral lumbar spine at the catch, rather than encouraging collapsing (flexion) of the lower back.
4. Slight flaring at the rear of the seat. Supports the buttocks in the finished position to enhance ability to maintain lumbar position & avoid lower back flexion.
5. Generous rear cut out for clearance of coccyx at the finish to eliminate rubbing on this sensitive area.
6. Foam hardness on the 2 models is about the same, as far as I can remember.
I realize that seating comfort is entirely dependent on individual characteristics, especially including gender, since females have a wider ischial spacing than males. My stats are 5' 5" height, weight 138 lbs. For an average American male, I am both shorter & smaller. However, the first 2 model C2 ergs had seats that were modeled more after a rowing shell/scull seat and I believe, more comfortable for the smaller, or normal sized individual. The present seat, being larger, flatter in contour and harder is, I believe, meant for the larger, more overweight, obese market. No offense intended for those who find the present seat comfortable. I'm sure C2 performed their due diligence & found the move to their present seat provided more comfort to their targeted consumer. I just wonder if their sampling group was skewed more to the overweight crowd than normal sized individuals.
I believe if the present C2 seat were made of a softer foam, it would be a better fit for a larger number of people. Presently the alternatives that C2 provides is padding the seat with bubble wrap, a folded towel or their seat pad.
Padding, although it works very well for many, is at best, a band-aid solution. The shape of the seat itself needs to be address. Padding itself provides no solution to changing the contours of the seat top.
If one wants a seat pad with a contoured top, at present, there is only one option: The Citius Remex ProW. Very, very expensive, north of $150 USD. Seat tops provide more choices, but they are all costly. Think well north of $100 USD after tax and shipping. Rowing seats from Dreher, Durham Boat, Croker, Filippi, etc, etc are all hard, without padding, but if the contour is right, will be more than adequate for comfort. (side note: during my college days, I was employed at the university experimental farm. Part of my duties was driving an ancient tractor for plowing, harrowing, sowing, spreading, etc. It had a cast iron seat, that had slots in it for ventilation. Intuitively, I thought my butt would be turned to hamburger, but it proved very comfortable for hours of use. The contours of the seat made all the difference, regardless of no cushioning). The Croker and Filippi seats are the only mass produced seats, I am aware of, that allow for gender differences.
Erg specific seat tops are available from EndureRow, Carl Douglas and Rowperfect, both RP3 & Indoor Sculler. EndureRow is the cheaper alternative about $113 USD. Rowperfect, like the erg itself, is in the stratosphere. About $150 USD or more. Carl Douglas seat tops are absolutely gorgeous and custom made to your anatomy. A butt mold using Oasis floral foam is made to get your ischial tuburosity measurements. These seats are works of art but will be well north of even the Rowperfect seats.
If a seat pad is just not cutting it for you, then be prepared to spend over $100 USD to get a contoured top. Most cost-effective choice at this time is the EndureRow seat top. Or, if you can find one, an old Model A or B seat top.
Discloser: I have no commercial/financial interests in any of these products.
Since writing the above, I have come across a company that provides both a seat pad & seat top with contoured features:
https://www.revolutionrowing.com/produc ... g-seat-pad
https://www.revolutionrowing.com/produc ... g-seat-top
These look promising and being less than $100 USD, is also easier on the wallet. Again, I have no commercial interests in this company.
Might try shimming the fwd end (facing “rear” leg) of my EndureRow off the roller carriage brackets.