Stroke count is misreported in LogBook

[CharleCarroll]

Dear All,

This afternoon while rowing 10 meters per stroke I was careful to row 602 strokes for the last interval. The 602 stroke count was clearly displayed on ErgData's screen. But when I synced the interval to my Logbook the stroke count was recorded as 667 strokes. When I checked the stroke count for the first interval it turned out that it also was recorded incorrectly. Is anyone seeing a similar problem?

Charles

[Citroen]

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=186382

[CharleCarroll]

Thanks. I have read the comments in the thread, which you linked to.

My observation is that while I am on the erg rowing ErgData counts each stroke. So the Total Stroke Count ErgData displays matches the total number of strokes I have actually taken. Then when I finish and sync ErgData with the Logbook, it changes this number. For example before syncing ErgData displayed the Total Stroke Count as 602 and the Total number of meters rowed as 6024. This comes to slightly more than 10 meters per stroke.

After syncing, however, while ErgData accurately recorded the Total Number of meters rowed as 6024, it inaccurately recorded the Total Stroke Count as 667, which comes out to 9.03 meters per stroke.

The rationale for this is difficult to comprehend. I am working on technique. Rowing 10 meters per stroke is one of the things I am working on. It would be nice if ErgData could record the actual Total Stroke Count.

[Citroen]

If you're convinced it's a bug in Ergdata then write an email to rowing@concept.com

I'm assuming you have the latest version of Ergdata and your PM5 is running the latest firmware.

[harrythehamster]

I guess it's a bug. Noticed that about 3 yrs ago soon after I had bought my own erg and started to use ErgData. No firmware and/or ErgData update has fixed that (though haven't updated fw since last summer, ErgData is the latest version).
Bug affects "only" Just Row sessions and dialed in distance/time -sessions where you don't finish session but cut it in short (for example dialed in 60' session and then rowed only part of that, for example 40''). ErgData shows correct stroke count in smartphone but after syncing to C2logbook you see incorrect stroke count there. In Just Row and in "coitus int. -sessions" bug is caused by somehow counting last incompleted split twice, first counting actual strokes taken during whole session and then during last incomplete split and then adding number of "predicted" stroke counts of that last imaginary "full" split to total strokes count.

So, until this is fixed I suggest not to use "Just row" sessions and/or to not HD your distance/time -dialed in -sessions, or just use that stroke count you see immediately after session in ErgData (before syncing your session to Logbook).

[CharleCarroll]

ErgData continues to misreport the Stroke Count. It reported that I rowed a total 962 strokes while the true count was 898. I called Concept2 Tech Support and talked with a young man named Nathan who told me that ErgData keeps track of the Stroke Count by sensing deceleration in the flywheel. Theoretically this should happen after the Finish. But Nathan said that an incorrect Stroke Count can occur either with low stroke rates or when the battery is low, or a combination thereof. I think this may explain the problem I am having with ErgData. For two weeks or so I have been noticing that the battery is low and thinking of swapping it out, so what Nathan told me made sense and I replaced the batteries. But it didn’t help. This is an annoying problem, but is it worth worrying about? Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien. Nathan also told me that ErgData suggested that a better way of keeping track of the Stroke Count is to count at the Finish.

/Charles

[c2jonw]

Sounds like a bug. Wonder if it's adding on the strokes taken during the rest period? In any case you should contact C2.

[Ombrax]

Wonder if it's adding on the strokes taken during the rest period?

That's easy enough to test - either don't row at all during the rest or count your strokes and see if that accounts for the difference.

[harrythehamster]

This bug has nothing to do with batteries or low stroke rates. Just avoid Just Row -sessions and use Select Workout -option instead. And don't handle down before you complete the whole workout. That way you always get correct number of total strokes both in Ergdata and in C2logbook.
https://www.concept2.com/service/monito ... how-to-use

[CharleCarroll]

Sounds like a bug. Wonder if it's adding on the strokes taken during the rest period? In any case you should contact C2.

Jon,

Nathan says hello. I spoke with him this morning.

Recently I have been doing 2 x 6000m workouts on a Dynamic Indoor Rower at low rate (18 to 22 spm) and low pressure with no strokes between sets. The Rest Interval is usually between 3 to 5 minutes. I use it mostly to check the alignment of my spine, which frequently needs a slight realignment. The idea is to improve movement competence in preparation for getting back on water.

Some days when I feel more patient I focus on rowing 10 meters per stroke. This drops the rate to 16-18 spm. Where the eyes lead attention follow. So I try to keep my eyes on the Force Curve.

I discussed your post with Nathan. He said you are an "excellent engineer" and that when you were at Concept2 he often sought out your advice. So he took your idea that there may be a bug very seriously. Is it in ErgData? Or is it in the PM5? Since I have uninstalled and reinstalled ErgData several times since I noticed this problem, so I wonder if it isn't in the PM5.

I used the USB Flash Drive to record one of the 6K intervals for Saturday, the 27th, but it didn't record a Total Stroke Count.

My first row with the Dynamic Indoor Rower was in January 2017. Since then I have recorded just a little under 13 Million Meters on the PM5. So the blame may be in the PM5.

Thanks for your thoughts on this.

/Charles

[Citroen]

It's a bug, it's not quite the size of a cockroach but it's in there with the definition of a bug that will cause a short circuit on a vacuum tube.

You need to explain to Nathan @ C2 that it's a bug by giving him the precise details needed to demonstrate it happening on latest Ergdata version with the latest PM5 firmware. Note: use of Ergdata with a USB stick in the back is an unsupported configuration.

If you have a simple recipe to recreate it publish that on here and other folks can see if it's really a bug or something you're doing.

The common way to break things with "Just Row" workouts is to fail to terminate the workout correctly. That's either done with the [BACK] button on the PM5 or with "YES" to the "Are you finished Yes/No" pop-up on Ergdata (which is a virtual [BACK] button).

[CharleCarroll]

Note: use of Ergdata with a USB stick in the back is an unsupported configuration.

I have never used Ergdata while a USB Flash Drive was connected to the PM5.

The common way to break things with "Just Row" workouts is to fail to terminate the workout correctly. That's either done with the [BACK] button on the PM5 or with "YES" to the "Are you finished Yes/No" pop-up on Ergdata (which is a virtual [BACK] button).

I suspect that 99% of my workouts are "Just Row." I end a workout by pressing the Are you finished Yes/No pop-up on Ergdata.

When I am successfully rowing 10 meters per stroke, the Ergdata screen display matches the total number of strokes to total meters rowed within ∓ 10 meters. The misreporting comes in my Concept2 Logbook after I have synced an Ergdata workout to it.

I probably should add that the USB Flash Drive doesn't record Total Meters Rowed. I have a bit of an obsessive personality. For most I don't think this incorrect reporting would be a problem at all. But I have lived long enough to know that small problems can become big problems when ignored.

/Charles

[CharleCarroll]

The results for this afternoon's workout:

• For the first 6K at 10 meters per stroke the USB Flash Drive recorded 6,019 meters but neither displayed nor recorded a Total Stroke Count.

• For the second 6K at 10 meters per stroke Ergdata recorded 6,007 meters and displayed on its screen a Total Stroke Count of 600 strokes; however in my Logbook it incorrectly recorded the Total Stroke Count as 685 strokes.

[CharleCarroll]

Bug affects "only" Just Row sessions and dialed in distance/time -sessions where you don't finish session ...

This afternoon I verified this. I programmed the PM5 for a 6K Distance, and then rowed at 10 meters per stroke. When I finished the result was 6000 meters in 600 strokes! Just to be safe, I duplicated this and got the same result, so it appears that the bug is indeed in the PM5.

Note that the bug hasn't always been in the PM5. I checked my Logbook history and found results for another time when I was rowing 10 meters per stroke. It was in the last 10 days of January 2019. Results show that for these workouts Total Stroke Counts conform to Total Meters Rowed.

I will talk to Nathan at Concept2 tech support and let him know.

/Charles

[Ombrax]

This afternoon I verified this. I programmed the PM5 for a 6K Distance, and then rowed at 10 meters per stroke. When I finished the result was 6000 meters in 600 strokes!

In that case, it seems like your problem is solved - just tell the PM what you're going to do, and it will correctly track your stroke count.

Does anyone use "Just Row" ?

I always program something in to give myself a goal, because otherwise it's too easy to quit early.

Plus, if one does use JR, how can the PM distinguish your actual rowing session from your cool-down at the end of the piece? It has to toss it all into what it thinks is your workout.