Drag factor (again) for newbee

[GuyDamato]

Hello All,

I am new to this, and searched the Forum, but only got the drag factor setting on the machines, when I searched. I understand the settings on the wheel.

on the PM5 after every row, it shows my drag factor (247,233,249,240,232,238 - only one per rowing event). I was reading webpages where it should be between 100 - 200, is a lower score better? Still can not figure this out. my stroke count is between 30 -33 per minute, does this have a factor?

thank you for your help...

Guy D'Amato
Melbourne, Florida
(Always sunny here, except during Hurricanes)

[gary]

If you press Menu/More Options/Display Drag Factor, then start rowing it will display your current drag factor after a few strokes.

Apparently a setting around 110 is close the effect you'd get on water, for me that's with a resistance setting of 4. There are quite a few videos on youtube that discuss this in more detail. This one mentions the water feel comparison and this one covers the settings in a bit more detail.

[hjs]

Hello All,

I am new to this, and searched the Forum, but only got the drag factor setting on the machines, when I searched. I understand the settings on the wheel.

on the PM5 after every row, it shows my drag factor (247,233,249,240,232,238 - only one per rowing event). I was reading webpages where it should be between 100 - 200, is a lower score better? Still can not figure this out. my stroke count is between 30 -33 per minute, does this have a factor?

thank you for your help...

Guy D'Amato
Melbourne, Florida
(Always sunny here, except during Hurricanes)

You use very high drag. Very difficult to get a good long stroke on such a high setting. This in combination with your 30/33 spm very likely lets you use a very short slow stroke. Set it a lot lower, 110/125 and get your rating down. 25 or less.
You left out the most importants stats. How far do you row? And how fast? That would tell a lot.

Also age, height, weight are usefull.

[GuyDamato]

I have rowing 2K’s and around 8 mins 40-50 seconds. I am 52 years old, about 260 lbs and 5’8”. Hoping this rowing will help me lose weight.

[hjs]

I have rowing 2K’s and around 8 mins 40-50 seconds. I am 52 years old, about 260 lbs and 5’8”. Hoping this rowing will help me lose weight.

It can help, but yes but, start extending your sessions, you should get to 30 min or more.

Your current build is a bit difficult in regard to getting a full stroke, but work with it. If you get the hang and keep at it for a longer while it will help. But have patience and certainly watch your diet. Low carb high fat is often a good way to get going. You really need to let go of sugar/carbs.

Good luck!

[jamesg]

I didn't know the PM5 shows drag factor for every piece; this is what the website says:

The PM5 provides distance, speed, pace, Calories, and watts for each workout you do, and you can choose between five display options: all data, force curve, bar chart, large print and having a paceboat/pacer.

The numbers you mention (247,233,249,240,232,238 - only one per rowing event) could be pace (time per 500m), where 247 is 2 minutes 47 seconds, or distance in meters, depending on how you set the display. In any case, whatever the numbers, sweat is real.

8:40 2k time means average pace 2:10.

Which is fine and well done; keep at it. Any form of daily exercise is good, but the erg is the best of all. Just set the drag lever low enough to get a quickish pull.

[GuyDamato]

Here is an image of my Concept2 logbook

[jimmyshand]

Hi Guy - I've been at this for just over a year now and have tried to get to the bottom of it. I'm 6'6" and about 210lbs and my preferred drag factor is about 110 to 120. For a very short piece such as 500m I might go above 130 but I'd never go anywhere near as high as you have.

You can spend a long time reading the forum and other places and it will nearly always suggest something like a drag factor 110 to 130 for most rowing, though it also seems to vary from individual to individual. On a machine with a clean flywheel (i.e. no dust inside, typically found in gym ergs) a drag factor of 110 to 130 would be around 3 to 5 on the damper setting, give or take a little.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, I am currently recovering from the flu so not doing so much rowing and I did a little drag factor test on my own machine this week - 10x 150m pieces and took notes. See below for how it felt and what I wrote - perhaps it might help you figure out the best setting. My advice though - as a newer rower myself - is row on a much lower drag factor, more slowly (e.g. 22psm) and for longer distances if you want to get fitter and lose weight. Music helps me overcome the monotony but really I kind of like monotony - personality I think.

For context, I was doing this little test to see how easy it was for me to pull 7 minute 2k pace, so that's why I refer to 1:45 below (i.e. 1:45 mins per 500m = 7 minute 2k). I have a Model D from 2015 with a PM5. These 10 150m rows were done at about 28-30 strokes per minute.

**
This was just a drag factor test and check on damper settings. All damper settings refer to the mid-point next to the number, between lines.

1, DF82, quite difficult to pull sub 1:45 but maybe possible with much higher rate
2, DF90, again not that easy to pull sub 1:45
3, DF99, easier to pull sub 1:45
4, DF115, easy to pull sub 1:45 and this feels like my sweet-spot overall
5, DF130, easy to pull sub 1:45 but felt more sluggish than 4
6, DF146, definitely a bit sluggish but easy to pull sub 1:45, not a problem at all but couldn't keep it up for any distance I reckon
7, DF169, easy to pull sub 1:40 here but not great for my back I could feel it
8, DF183, this was very sluggish, and as above but harder to pull
9, DF199, very sluggish indeed and no way I would use this for any distance at all probably
10, DF212, incredibly sluggish.

When I went back to DF115 it felt incredibly easy to pull hard and fast.
**

[pj07]

1, DF82, quite difficult to pull sub 1:45 but maybe possible with much higher rate
2, DF90, again not that easy to pull sub 1:45
3, DF99, easier to pull sub 1:45
4, DF115, easy to pull sub 1:45 and this feels like my sweet-spot overall
5, DF130, easy to pull sub 1:45 but felt more sluggish than 4
6, DF146, definitely a bit sluggish but easy to pull sub 1:45, not a problem at all but couldn't keep it up for any distance I reckon
7, DF169, easy to pull sub 1:40 here but not great for my back I could feel it
8, DF183, this was very sluggish, and as above but harder to pull
9, DF199, very sluggish indeed and no way I would use this for any distance at all probably
10, DF212, incredibly sluggish.

Thats a really good idea jimmyshand. I am no-where near a 1:45 but might try something similar.

I've only recently started rowing regularly and finding the drag selector a bit of a mine-field. I've always used 9 but recently dropped to 8. Rowing in the high 20s low 30s spm.

I tried dropping it further (5-6) but found there was so little resistance i was jarring my knees.

I definitely need to look up videos on form, regardless, but I can't imagine dropping it much further without injuring myself.

Am I making an amateurs mistake here somewhere?

Also, as alluded to by jimmyshand, do you find gym rowers vary significantly between machines? Do you use the computed drag factor to 'calibrate' each machines drag selector?

Sorry for lots of basic questions

[pj07]

Also, as alluded to by jimmyshand, do you find gym rowers vary significantly between machines? Do you use the computed drag factor to 'calibrate' each machines drag selector?

After further research to this the answer is a resounding 'yes', each rower is different.

I suppose ignoring the drag selector value but adjusting it until the calculated drag factor sits at a sustainable number, is the right answer to the second part?

[hjs]

Also, as alluded to by jimmyshand, do you find gym rowers vary significantly between machines? Do you use the computed drag factor to 'calibrate' each machines drag selector?

After further research to this the answer is a resounding 'yes', each rower is different.

I suppose ignoring the drag selector value but adjusting it until the calculated drag factor sits at a sustainable number, is the right answer to the second part?

First check out the real drag, dusty machines are common in gyms, does gave a very low drag.
If the machine is not dirty and you still need a high drag, your stroke is wrong. Its short and slow. It should be complete and quick.
You using ratings around 30 is also a factor. This means going up and down like a bunny. You should make a firm stroke and very relax come back. Ratings 18/24.

Try rowing strapless, this will help you a lot.

[jimmyshand]

Regarding drag factor variance between ergs, see this post (linked below) for a little bit of data collection I did in my gym. None of them were capable of a drag factor higher than 141 and one maxed out at 107! But they have now been cleaned, and I mainly row at home now anyway, but it just goes to show you checking the DF is much better than just going by damper setting.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=155763#p405146

[Citroen]

All four machines needed a good clean out - probably had never been done from new.

Machine #1 is least bad damper 6 or 7 on that one would suit me.

[warnie]

This is great information, thanks for posting the thread. I haven't rowed for a long time, I managed to train to do a rowing marathon 12 years ago and then concentrated on other forms of training but I want to get back into using the Concept as part f a stable exercise and this information will certainly help.

As a short person I'm never going to compete with guys that are so much taller than me for times but for me it's about getting back into shape and changing things around. I remember many years ago that people in the gym told me to put it on damper 10 as that will give you the best workout - they were obviously wrong! Thanks to this thread I now know about how to check drag factor and to experiment.

When i was training for the rowing marathon i was rowing at around 1:55 per 500m and 2:10 to 2:15 for the training rows between 5k and 15k.

Should I start from scratch with a low drag number and work my way up and see how it feels?

I now consider my self firmly back in the rookie/novice corner!!

[Citroen]

You should start between 110 and 130 and work from there.