Concept2 Forum

Hi - I am new to Concept 2 D rower having just bought one for home use.

I have spent about 1 month with a much cheaper rower but the point I need confirmation is to do with the load on my legs, when rowing for weight loss. In the case of both machines I find that once I am rowing at about 20 SPM, there seems to be very little contribution from my legs. I have studied with great care the technique with respect to Catch Drive Release etc etc and am sure that I am reasonably correct in broad terms with my style.

At the catch when I push back with legs and arms straight and leaning forward at 1 o'clock angle there is a significant part of the drive back with no load on legs. Then when legs are straight the arms experience the load of the drive back. I understand that probably the momentum of the flywheel is running ahead of my leg effort so could it be that I am not pushing back fast enough to catch up with this momentum. I have set for a drag factor of 130. I observe the power curve on the PM5 and can see quite a variety of curve shapes but none that I can consistently match.

I am 76 years old and weigh 91 kilos having lost 11 kilos since early May in my mission to get down to 80 kilo. I have quite a bit of a midriff bulge (gut!) and this hampers how far I can lean into the catch.

So as my gut reduces and my speed of leg extension improves with technique can I expect to feel the load on my legs that my arms feel. The coaches here say 60% from legs? - no way for me?

Many thanks from Ian Ramsay - Scotland UK

Your butt might be shooting from under you from the catch position this would explain it. Thats why you feel much more load on the arms and little on the legs. Re: technique, everything should move in sync from the catch.

Posting up a side on video of your technique will be the best thing.

Hi
Great that you got a Concept 2 ( I am just a user, not related to the company), Over the years I have tested many other rowers and there is one other brand that I would even think to buy. I consider this to be the best overall brand in the marked.

I also happen to coach youngsters of your age, and I would like to advice a bit. First the drag factor of 130 is too much for you in my opinion, notice that male elite rowers use about that. I would recommend to you to lower the drag factor to 90-100 for general fitness.

To troubleshoot your technique, if you do not have a coach, I would recommend lowering the drag factor to the minimum, If you do not feel the resistance, then your drive is too slow.

Set a camera to film your rowing technique ( or mirrors), you can see what you are doing wrong, there are nice youtube videos and you can compare how close you are to what is considered ideal (for example search in youtube darkhorse rowing)

Obviously during the drive there should be a continuity of driving force all the way from the catch to the finish, transferring from the legs to the back and the finally the arms. You have to practice that, using the force curve. Remember to do an efficient and elegant recovery too.

We do drills of legs only, back only, arms only, legs and back, back and arms and then the full drive, also we do change the length of the strokes during drills.
With legs only drills you can improve the catch.

If you have some “midriff bulge” I highly recommend taking shorter strokes, otherwise you will be short of breath as the lung capacity is reduced at the catch, AND also your stomach might get upset as result of repetitive compressions.

Take full strokes and increase the drag factor to about 100 when you feel your weight is ok.

Cheers!!

We have to be quick at the catch to make the flywheel engage asap; compare the first stroke to later ones.

In rowing, the legs don't feel much load: if the handle travels 1 meter, 20 times a minute, under load 40kg, the work done implies a power of 130W, which is enough to get fit. 40 kg is a small load for two legs together, but plenty to get us fit if we repeat 500-1000 times with long strokes.

The standard rowing technique, as shown in the C2 video, is designed to ensure a good stroke length, which is what makes the legs work.

The ratio Watts/Rating is a measure of stroke quality. 5 will be a good level for you to start at, so 100W at rating 20.

jamesg wrote:
In rowing, the legs don't feel much load:

Until you do a max 500m and feel your legs about to fall off.

Thanks guys for your prompt and stimulating advice.

I'll experiment with the effect of reducing drag and see how I get on. I have spent hours on YouTube and must say that there is some degree of divergence on some of the detail of technique. However there is also a common core of technique and I am practising this.

I'll report back in a few days and thanks very much.

jirams wrote:Thanks guys for your prompt and stimulating advice.

I certainly applaud your interest in, and efforts toward, becoming more fit. I'm wishing you good luck with it!

I omitted one important parameter in my original post - my inside leg length is only 31 inches. My height is 5ft 9in.

I suppose being so short arsed detracts from the leg action in rowing.

IanR

jirams wrote:I suppose being so short arsed detracts from the leg action in rowing.

Not true. Taller guys get a longer stroke, but they aren't using their legs any more than shorter guys. Most of the power, regardless of your height, comes from the legs. But, you have to have a strong core to transfer that power to the handle.

I would also suggest you are "shooting the slide" - that is, moving your butt backwards with no solid connection through your core and arms to the handle. If that is the case, you won't feel any work in the legs; all you're moving is your butt, not the fan. Do some legs only drills from the catch position and concentrate on holding your core strong so that if the seat moves 1", the handle moves 1". You do that and believe me, you'll start feeling it your legs.

My shout in my earlier post!

Jus sayin

Hi

I said I would report back on my concerns about the contribution of my legs to the drive.

I have suddenly found that I am in the 'notch'. By going over videos on technique and by slowing down my return after the drive I can feel a much greater load on the legs at the catch. I have adopted a DF of 110 and in a 30 minute 250 calorie burn I average around 21 s/m. At 76 years of age and on a weight loss mission my calorie burn is the thing.

What is also significant is that I am now getting much better with my breathing. I inspire on the drive and expire on return. At 21 s/m I have a cadence which leaves me much less breathless than before.

I have noticed opinions on when to breathe in, that are 180 degrees apart - I have adopted the above as I feel that as I straighten up and lean back on the drive my diaphragm is opening up and my chest is free of compression enabling better inspiring. I tend to inhale and exhale both through the mouth and exhale on pursed lips which helps my COPD lung condition.

I would appreciate any comments again.

Regards to all - ianR

jirams wrote:I inspire on the drive and expire on return.

In general, I believe you're supposed to exhale on the effort.

Also, at low effort most folks have one breath per stroke, but as the work output / heart rate increase they switch over to two breaths per stroke. Your body should tell you when you need to go from 1 b/s to 2 b/s.

Edit: link to C2 info on breathing: http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/t ... techniques

Good Luck